Thread: Coticule and what i think

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I have been under the impression that this is not a quest to get a great edge nearly as much as it is to get a working edge with just one stone

Maybe I have been wrong

no no no. It's a quest to find the perfect edge one way, and then find a different way to get the perfect edge, and then yet a different way to find a perfect edge, and then rinse and repeat with every razor in your rotation!

Once I got to nirvana with a simple friodur 70 1/2 off my coticule or escher, I of course didn't touch it for a month, because I had to find five other razors that were just as good. Somebody stop me!

It shouldn't take a Coticule that is basically what every one has been saying all along, any 6k-8k stone should do it, natural, synthetic, or otherwise...

I'll try a Norton 8k but I am willing to bet I could do it on anything that is near an 8k grit .... The slurry cuts that in half down to about a 4k the cutting of the slurry with water gently brings it up in grit and the water puts it at 8k.... I can actually take it even finer on a Norton, just because I honed on that stone for so long, and know its tricks very well.... Basically all you are doing is a whole lot of extra work to hone on a 4k/8k combo....

Originally Posted by Chimensch

I have thought about your response to me for some time and I just want to go on record that I wrote you in a PM that I thought you were rude to Bart. In a PM and not in public. Then, shortly after, you are rude to me in public. Lynn, you have a special posiiton here as the founder of this forum and public criticism from you does sting. I think you should keep this in mind when you lose your temper.

I was plodding along enjoying this thread and then saw out of no where something about "I'm not trying to get in the middle of the Lynn Bart dispute," and i have got to say that looked pretty contrived to me, and was a bit of a buzz kill.

We're all big boys here. We should all try to not lose our temper, but we all do and will eventually. And nobody should be distraught if an anchor member criticizes them - big deal. There are no grudges here and there is no bullying here and that's a good thing.

And there are lots of sexy pictures of razors and hones here, so that's the thing to focus on.

Originally Posted by pjrage

I was under the impression that the objectives were actually two fold - that you can shave off of it, and, further, that it COULD be the only stone you need (if you like the shaving edge it offers). I think all would agree that maybe it's not the most efficient, but it's also not so ridiculously inefficient that it's impractical to use as your only stone, from bevel setting through final edge. IMHO, it's impractical for a honemeister to use as their only stone, but for average joe who hones a razor a week if that, he can afford an extra couple hundred strokes or so, and some fiddling time, if needed.

The problem, as I understand it, and maybe I'm grossly misunderstanding what I've been reading lately on the subject and if so please forgive me, is that some people feel that it's a very overrated stone. It's not the fastest or cheapest stone in it's grit ranges, so why bother? I think this point of view comes from the fact that the coticule has been getting this rep lately as almost a magic stone.. that it can "do it all" and the shaves off of it are great. Everyone (newbies in particular) sees this and they instantly want a coticule without considering if there might be some other, more efficient, if not better, hones that might suit them just as well at a similar price point. I think the people in the second camp define better primarily with efficiency and reliability/consistency (how long / how many strokes it takes to complete each honing stage, and how repeatable the results are on different razors).

Anyway, that's my impression of the two sides of it, from what I can tell.

You've hit the nail on the head. That is why i got one after reading up on the cotis i even brough a blue not long after and a couple more coti because i read they can all vary i then purchased one from howard because i no he sell them for use for razors for sure. I've used them in all differant ways and they do give a very smooth edg on an all ready honed edge of say 4k 4k as for slurry honing setting bevel they can also do that and polish but my edges after slurry honing is never as sharp as it should be i do have a strong besrd may be if my stubble was finer i'd have no probs.

Well it worked really easy on the Norton 8k just like I figured


http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...e-threads.html

I just do not understand the controversy here. It has been known for several years that you can set a bevel off a Coticule (do a search on LX_Emergency's earlier posts - he mentions he has done it). Add to that the fact that we all know a coticule can be a good finisher, and there you have it.

All I see that Bart did was put the two ideas together and suggest one possible way to do it efficiently. So am I missing something?

James.

I agree you can put a bevel on a razor i have done and finished on water and the shave is unprdictable as bart will agree and has menthoned the problem is you don't get a great shave with that method the slurry for me restricts sharpness my beard is fairly strong i need a finer edge than coticule can produce i like the coticule as finisher no problems there. i have watched lx video as he hones and i have to say looking closly i might be wrong but it looks like he has very fine stubble so maybe he does'nt need the level of sharpness i like. I could not get a good shave of coticule with just slurry honing i've tryed it several times thats my problem .I have to go back to 4k 8k only for athew strokes then i use bbw light slurry then yellow plain water and that same razor whips through my stubble i have done same progression finishing on yellow slurry and the shave is not as good somtimes no way near.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I just do not understand the controversy here. It has been known for several years that you can set a bevel off a Coticule (do a search on LX_Emergency's earlier posts - he mentions he has done it). Add to that the fact that we all know a coticule can be a good finisher, and there you have it.

All I see that Bart did was put the two ideas together and suggest one possible way to do it efficiently. So am I missing something?

James.

Yes, you are. To the best of my understanding, I think that Lynn and hi_bud_gl felt that Bart was promoting the use of the coticule beyond what was reasonable, and that it was not good advice for new shavers. Lynn, in particular, seems to feel that he is responsible for protecting new members of the forum from being misled. What made Bart's situation worse was that he was highly respected and influential and, so, he had a greater potential to mislead newcomers and wouldn't stop defending his ideas when warned. I honestly don't think that Bart understood where the hostility was coming from, after all he was just sharing ideas the way scientists do. I don't think he thought of himself as being that influential and I think that he certainly didn't understand that (in my characterization) Lynn was being paternalistic.

In any case, Lynn got angry and said some things to Bart in a post that I saw before it was pulled and Bart left shortly afterwards.

Ah, well I must admit I did not read that thread in its entirety. I do not use my coticule very often, so I tend to not pay a lot of attention to coticule-based threads.

It is certainly important to ensure newer users get a balanced view of all aspects of straight razors including honing, although I do wonder why they would be perusing the Advanced Honing Topics forum, or if they are why they would think the ideas expressed in there are appropriate to someone with little to no experience - maybe a sticky warning them that the basic honing forum is more appropriate to their needs would be in order?

James.

I for one enjoyed reading barts post and will miss them he was very helpful and a good member