cannot hone anything

**napoleon** · 09-11-2009, 11:08 AM

Before starting honing my double arrow, here is what the edge looks like:

**Kees** · 09-11-2009, 11:14 AM

One question: how much pressure do you apply? You do not accidentally lift the toe or heel end of the razor off the hone while doing your strokes?

You need to strop on the leather before testing sharpness after honing on the 4K or 8K. Stropping does make an enormous difference!

**napoleon** · 09-11-2009, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Kees

One question: how much pressure do you apply? You do not accidentally lift the toe or heel end of the razor off the hone while doing your strokes?

You need to strop on the leather before testing sharpness after honing on the 4K or 8K. Stropping does make an enormous difference!

Not much pressure in the 1k, I'll experiment with the 4k in a few hours.
I haven gotten past the TNT so I havent gotten to the higher grits.

Here is my honing vid- just a demonstration of my honing technique-
YouTube - razor honing on a norton 4k

**Whiskers** · 09-11-2009, 12:37 PM

Ok, here is my view for what it is worth ...

Stay off of the low grits. Use the 4k/8k Norton, specifically the 4k side to set the bevel.

Yes, it is a slow way to set the bevel but it is good because it is slow. You will have the chance to develop good technique from the beginning.

Also, mind the amount of force being put on the blade while honing. I like to use a 'gradient' of force; starting out with some (not alot) force and slowly reducing the force until the edge is barely contacting the stone.

It does take some pratice. Thats why I say 'stay on the 4k'.

How do you know when to move on? When the edge will easily knock down standing arm hair right off of the 4k.

Good Luck !!

**AFDavis11** · 09-11-2009, 12:39 PM

This will be a drive by reply so PM if you need to:

Based on the picture I would grab an 8K or higher stone and do 100 passes, then strop.

I also just looked at your video. You may not be willing to buy it but I can tell your applying waaaaaay too much pressure. If I can see it from here you might want to consider it. Get your thumb OFF the top of the shank.

Also your looping. flying, waving and flaring the razor at the end of each stroke, totally wrong concept. It isn't a baton. The stroke in both directions has to be the exact same distance on both sides over and over again. Keep the spine on the stone!

BTW, that is a pretty good bevel you got there. Your technique won't get the razor any sharper than an ordinary factory edge though. And kudos to you for posting a pic and a video. Makes throwing out advice easy.

**hi_bud_gl** · 09-11-2009, 12:55 PM

As i said early video will help and it does.
Please at first your grabbing blade is wrong next at the end of the stroke you are lifting blade way up on the hair then turning wrong direction cutting edge toward to stone.
What does above 2 factor's do.
First one you will end up uneven edge and sharpness of the blade.
Second one doesn't matter how careful you will one day you will hit the stone with the edge.
Please check honing video's and see how you should keep the blade (usually don't lift up the blade)and make strokes.
These are essential and important factors.
Now as said before me wrong keeping the blade puts too much pressure on the blade.later on the honing you start to making forward and backword strokes please don't do that yet. Time will come your hands will get used to honing and you can do that type strokes.
Please will better you tape the back of the blade. in this case you can use that blade for a learning more time then without tape.
Last and in my book is the 1 st is this patience.
GL

**napoleon** · 09-11-2009, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Whiskers

Ok, here is my view for what it is worth ...

Stay off of the low grits. Use the 4k/8k Norton, specifically the 4k side to set the bevel.

Yes, it is a slow way to set the bevel but it is good because it is slow. You will have the chance to develop good technique from the beginning.

Also, mind the amount of force being put on the blade while honing. I like to use a 'gradient' of force; starting out with some (not alot) force and slowly reducing the force until the edge is barely contacting the stone.

It does take some pratice. Thats why I say 'stay on the 4k'.

How do you know when to move on? When the edge will easily knock down standing arm hair right off of the 4k.

Good Luck !!

Will try. It doesn't shave anything yet.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

This will be a drive by reply so PM if you need to:

Based on the picture I would grab an 8K or higher stone and do 100 passes, then strop.

But the edge is dull, it doesn't shave arm hair (it used to). Than I should get to the 8k.

I also just looked at your video. You may not be willing to buy it but I can tell your applying waaaaaay too much pressure. If I can see it from here you might want to consider it. Get your thumb OFF the top of the shank.

I'm not using that much pressure. Maybe 30-40% more than the weight of the blade.
And the heel is duller than the toe so I was thinking of putting more pressure there. I won't any more.

Also your looping. flying, waving and flaring the razor at the end of each stroke, totally wrong concept. It isn't a baton. The stroke in both directions has to be the exact same distance on both sides over and over again. Keep the spine on the stone!

BTW, that is a pretty good bevel you got there. Your technique won't get the razor any sharper than an ordinary factory edge though. And kudos to you for posting a pic and a video. Makes throwing out advice easy.

The strokes are the same distance.
The "looping, flying...", are you talking about the flipping over part or the stroke itself?
The blade has a little smile so I have to roll, swoop to hit all the parts of the edge.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

As i said early video will help and it does.
Please at first your grabbing blade is wrong next at the end of the stroke you are lifting blade way up on the hair then turning wrong direction cutting edge toward to stone.
What does above 2 factor's do.
First one you will end up uneven edge and sharpness of the blade.
Second one doesn't matter how careful you will one day you will hit the stone with the edge.
Please check honing video's and see how you should keep the blade (usually don't lift up the blade)and make strokes.
These are essential and important factors.

OK for the holding part. But why should flipping over be such a big deal (I will practice correct form), but if I am lifting the edge first and hitting with the spine, does it really matter which direction I roll it. As long as I'm not digging and hitting the edge on the hone I should be ok.

Now as said before me wrong keeping the blade puts too much pressure on the blade.later on the honing you start to making forward and backword strokes please don't do that yet. Time will come your hands will get used to honing and you can do that type strokes.
Please will better you tape the back of the blade. in this case you can use that blade for a learning more time then without tape.
Last and in my book is the 1 st is this patience.
GL

Will try.

**napoleon** · 09-11-2009, 04:24 PM

Some update. To cut the story short- still no progress.

I took a sheet of a wet 3M 600 grit sandpaper, put it on a glass and lapped the stone.
I taped the spine (1 layer of electrical tape):

A before picture of the "bevel" (looks great but doesn't cut any hair or dig in a fingernail at all)

Than I stared doing laps on the 4k side with the slurry from lapping the stone.
Going with only the weight of the razor, even strokes, rolling on the spine.

A vid of the new strokes (keep in mind it's not as good as as in real life cause I had to hold and aim the camera with my other hand. Plus, the sound on the camera is much stronger and rougher).

YouTube - Picture 250

**hi_bud_gl** · 09-11-2009, 04:36 PM

That is getting better. Let me answer to your question first.
why is matter lifting up the blade. when you start to learn something new try learn right way. it will take early time but later you will be fine. if you learn wrong way you will hit that edge sooner or later and that will be really painful.
grabbing blade is important to put equal pressure all point of the blade.
Now your strokes is getting better problem now your stone.
what is it?
is that coticule? if yest then keep doing what are you doing just use slurry?
i can see your edge is getting better too. you will get there.GL

**khaos** · 09-11-2009, 04:46 PM

Fingernails are made of chiton (I think...) or at least some kind of solid protein and thus are very very tough. The fact that you TNT'ed it after 8k means you killed any edge you had. Set the bevel, TNT, if it passes, do a few laps, then move on. Your next test is arm hair. Once it passes do a couple more to fix what you undid. Then move on. Next test is arm hair (carefully) or HHT.

This won't apply to you cus diff. stones, but as an example:
I set the bevel on Nani SS 1k- once it passes TNT, I give it 10 more laps to fix the damage I did
I move to the Nani SS 3k- once it starts cutting hair I give it 5-10 more laps to fix the damage I did
I move to the Nani SS 5k- I sharpen on this till it easily shaves arm hair. Give it five more laps
IF NEEDED I move to Thuri w/slurry if 5k wasn't to satisfaction and wasn't getting better
I move to Thury w/o slurry or J-nat (or try both- if one doesn't work I'll drop back to the 5k or Thury w/ slurry)

See how after each test I do a couple laps, then move on based on faith? The TNT (and other tests to a slight degree) dulls the edge. And if you were TNT'ing after say, the 8k level, you're done for. If you're bevel setting on a 4k I would assume you'd need more than the 10ish strokes I'm doing on the 1k after the TNT, how many I don't know. Maybe someone can chime in?

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