Thread: Naniwa Hones - Need some Help !!!

By now I'm sure you're already starting to figure it's your technique. Well I'd say Glen's advice about setting a proper bevel is one of the earlier lessons that proved to be really important for me. A proper bevel sets the bar for the future hones. If your razor has a poorly set bevel - because of either you or whoever honed it for you - you're gonna have problems.

As for technique, when I first started a big sticking point was getting the pressure right. I was putting too much pressure on the blade and it was impossible to get it sharp. Once I eased up and just let the hone do the work, I got an edge in a snap. (No guarantees though! )

You really want to make sure you aren't pushing the blade into the hone. Only allow the weight of the blade itself to keep the blade on the stone - no other pressure. Maybe it'll take longer, but IMO it's too easy to put too much pressure accidentally. Try easing up on the razor and see if that works.

Originally Posted by BrentonC

Wow, Jim,

Those are some CURVACEOUS babes. I mean blades!

So, when you set the bevel, did you do as Lynn does in that video, blade flat on the 1000grit for 40 rotations on each side,

or, when you say roll, ... yeah, I'm not sure I get the picture. Perhaps you mean you roll it by starting with the handle closer to the ground, and raise it up, through the stroke, so that a different part of the blade contacts the hone throughout the stroke? Is that what you' mean?

The circles work if the blade lays flat on the hone If it doesn't lay flat then an x stroke is the way to go IME. Those two needed the rolling x as described in the thread I linked to in a previous post. It is reminiscent to me of honing a knife with a clip blade. Towards the end you have to manipulate the blade to go with the curve of the point.

With any straight razor honing you have to have the edge and the area of the spine that is parallel to it on the hone without lifting one or the other. Referring to the part that is being sharpened. So the rolling x starts at the heel/spine and as you go through the stroke the heel comes up and the point/spine begins descending. At the beginning the heel and rear portion of the blade is on the hone while the point and corresponding spine area is not. At the end of the stroke it is just the opposite. IIRC the description in the rolling x thread is probably better but that is the best I can do. I hope it is understandable.

I thikn I get the picture. I should have watched that second link before I followed up with another question about it. Sorry about that one. I had a little attention lapse there!

I'll go back and watch that the second I get home.

Yeah, I'm persuaded I'm just not doing this right the way I've been trying.

Thanks for the follow ups, guys. This is really starting to come clear to me how I've gone astray.

(Glad I held off with the sledge hammer treatment last night!)

Ok, I've got the roll -- conceptually at least.

And a 1000 grit naniwa on the way.

I'll be sure to give an update after it arrives, and I give this a go!

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Lynn has recommended an x stroke heel leading with the blade at 45 degrees relative to the hone. I've had success with that on smiling blades and also the rolling x which is talked about in this thread here.

For a lot of great info on many honing topics "Lynn Abrams On Honing" in the SRP Wiki here has great info if you read through it. Excerpts from various threads that were put together.

Greetings again, Gents.

Just a quick update.

After acquiring a Naniwa 1k hone for resetting the bevel, I have been attempting to do so.

I have to say after following Lynn's video advice from Razor-con for setting the bevel, the razor feels different on the 5, 8 and 12k stones. Hard to describe, but it's like I can "feel" the edge against the hone more than before. Feels like it's doing some sharpening there.

After two sessions, however, starting out on the 1k, and working my way up through the 12K, then 50 laps on a pasted T-I strop, and 50 on the Tony Miller hanging strop ... it still feels like it's tearing the hair out by the handful, rather than cutting.

But, I am encouraged by the way the razor feels different on the hone. Obviously I have to expect to the technique will take a while yet to develop.

One complication. I think I may have slightly damaged the blade such that, when one side rests on the hone, the toe is just ever so slightly up, and when I flip the razor, I think the heel is ever so slightly off the hone.

IME with a razor that won't lay flat on the hone rolling X strokes throughout is what I do. No circles. I've seen 'rolling circles' mentioned and tried them but I don't find that technique precise enough with my coordination and skill level. What I have found is that taking as much time as it takes on the bevel setting pays off on the sharpening and finishing. Going to the point where a good TNT is achieved and continuing on the bevel setter until arm hair is easily shaved all along the length of the blade pays dividends later.

If it feels like the razor is tearing the hair out, it makes me think that you haven't properly set the bevel. Before you move up from your 1k, you should be able to shave hairs off your arm, and if you get a really good bevel, you'll be able to pop the hairs off your arm. If your edge cannot do this, moving up in the progression is unlikely to get you any further (unless you spend a loooong time on the 5k).

In other words "What Jimmy said."

Thanks Jim,

I noticed it would only easily shave the arm hair at the heel. More work on the bevel then, and I won't waste time trying to move on until that's good and set.

X strokes it is.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

If it feels like the razor is tearing the hair out, it makes me think that you haven't properly set the bevel. Before you move up from your 1k, you should be able to shave hairs off your arm, and if you get a really good bevel, you'll be able to pop the hairs off your arm. If your edge cannot do this, moving up in the progression is unlikely to get you any further (unless you spend a loooong time on the 5k).

In other words "What Jimmy said."

I'd wager that the bevel was never correctly set. Until the bevel is set for the entire length of the blade, you can spend ungodly hours on finishing hones with dismal results because you were never really honing the edge of the blade. And the fact that touching it up with a pasted strop helped a lot - but still not enough to make it shave well, tells me that you were probably pasting an edge that wasn't completely honed. But I can only guess based on the clues provided.

Hello again gentlemen,

A final word of thanks to one and all, as getting this right demanded putting all the advice given here into action. Indeed, I had to carefully re-read advice, and re-view recommended videos to get it right.

One funny thing -- I tried the black marker test on the bevel, and while honing did take away the marker as it was supposed to, it was still slooooowwww going.

I was resisting trying this, but finally resorted to opting for a secondary bevel by using one strip of electrical tape on either side of the spine.

20 laps on the 2k, and I could see the new bevel forming with a 10x jewellers loupe. AND, I could feel the difference when shaving arm hair.

So, on up through the 5k, 8k, 12k and then stropping, et viola, I'm playin' the fiddle! This bastichi is sharper than the day I bought her!

I'd like to tell you I had my best shave ever ... All I can say is, in places, it's the closest ever. Now to work on technique.

Appears that I'm on my way now!