Thread: I'm not sure what to say about this.

Try it and see how it works for you. What else matters?

I don't mean that to be abrupt or dismissive. Just the opposite. Who cares what others think if you are happy? That's my point.

Unorthodox doesn't mean something is "wrong" of course. However, as I've said before in other threads, we have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of man hours of experience here with honing straight razors and experimenting with the various ways of approaching it. With all due respect to the author of the video, I doubt he can claim even a fraction of that.

So with that in mind I would humbly suggest that the merits of the method demonstrated in this video be weighted accordingly.

James.

Originally Posted by gooser

i got to page 5 or 6 before i stopped ...lol.. thanks for the link though ..

Heh, yeah. It's one of those threads.

I don't think that anybody should be too critical of his methods until they have shaved with a razor that has been sharpened by him.

Mr. Carter is just doing things differently. Doesn't that apply to anybody that shaves with a straight razor? Can you imagine the response of the average cartridge razor user on seeing a video of somebody using a straight? They'd probably be horrified.

Compared to other methods of straight razor sharpening, Murray's method does look a bit brutal, but if it gets the result, so what.

Ian

Then again, there is an important reason for me to not do things the way he does. Iirc, at some point he claimed that his knives gave him better shaves than a razor. Now, that is worth considering. The razor evolved over hundreds of years and billions of smith / cutler manhours to a shape that is ideal for the purpose of shaving and sharpening.

If that design gives you worse shaves than something which was absolutely never designed for the purpose of shaving, then it is a fair assumption that you're doing something wrong. Either that, or tens of thousands of cutlers and smiths got it wrong so far, including every custom maker who is still making razors today.

We've tried pretty much every sharpening method known to man, including what he does, and we still ended up doing it the way we do now.

Just playing Devils Advocate (because I find it fun!) how does that argument explain the rise and spread of chopsticks becoming widespread in Asia? If Murray came along with a knife, spoon and fork I'd swap my chopsticks in a heartbeat - I don't care how long it took however many dedicated souls to perfect the chopstick!

Regards,
Neil

I'm sure if Murray Carter came along with alternate cutlery there'd be no need for the knife - I hear his spoons are plenty sharp!

Playing along with the devil's advocate thing, good luck with eating a steak with a set of chopsticks. The cultural differences in cuisine are, I think, the main reasons why chopsticks are used throughout Asia. That, and cultural dogma. Not that I know of course, just a guess. But I would hazard that if the staple diet throughout Asia wasn't predominantly rice and noodle based, a different set of eating utensils would have developed to reflect the needs dictated by the food eaten. And of course the preparation of food has concurrently developed to reflect the eating utensils.

Of course, this is not to say what Carter does is incorrect or wrong. It is just different. But let's just say I don't think his "cultural cuisine" is Asian-based. As the old saying goes: Don't bring a (sharpened) spoon to a chopstick fight.

James.

How did this thread go on for 20 some pages, get closed, then get re-opened with a link to the original video that started the first 22 pages of yacking, all over again?

Just shows that you don't understand the asian mindset.
No offense intended. I know a bit mroe about this because I am learning Japanese, and am also involved in traditional Japanese jujutsu. And of course, I am keenly interested in Japanese smithing techniques

In the west, we are always looking for a shortcut. A smarter way to do something, with less effort. And our society praises people who are good at this.

In Japan for example, this is not the case. Japanese praise mental fortitude and perseverance. If something is difficult or painful, that's normal. The answer is not to make it easier but to work harder or ignore the pain. For example, I know a guy in Japan who does kyudo (archery). Every year they have an exhibition for which they need to literally move a mountain of sand (as a safety against stray arrows. They do this by shoveling the sand in buckets and sacks, and then carrying them to the right location. the guy (westerner living in Japan) knew that their neighbor had a wheelbarrow, and there was concrete path from there to where they needed to be.

He was smart enough to not bring this up in public, but instead mentioned it to his best friend in that dojo, who immediately shushed him. Because to suggest the easy way would imply that you're trying to cop out, and lack perseverance. That would be a very shameful thing to do. I could list many different example, but they all boil down to that.

If you explain to a Japanese that a knife and fork are easier, they will listen politely, compliment you on coming up with a better solution, thank you, and continue to use chopsticks. Because switching to chopsticks just because it is easier would be a cop out.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Just shows that you don't understand the asian mindset.
No offense intended. I know a bit mroe about this because I am learning Japanese, and am also involved in traditional Japanese jujutsu. And of course, I am keenly interested in Japanese smithing techniques

In the west, we are always looking for a shortcut. A smarter way to do something, with less effort. And our society praises people who are good at this.

In Japan for example, this is not the case. Japanese praise mental fortitude and perseverance. If something is difficult or painful, that's normal. The answer is not to make it easier but to work harder or ignore the pain. For example, I know a guy in Japan who does kyudo (archery). Every year they have an exhibition for which they need to literally move a mountain of sand (as a safety against stray arrows. They do this by shoveling the sand in buckets and sacks, and then carrying them to the right location. the guy (westerner living in Japan) knew that their neighbor had a wheelbarrow, and there was concrete path from there to where they needed to be.

He was smart enough to not bring this up in public, but instead mentioned it to his best friend in that dojo, who immediately shushed him. Because to suggest the easy way would imply that you're trying to cop out, and lack perseverance. That would be a very shameful thing to do.

No offense taken, nor instruction necessary - it was intended as humorous.

Regards,
Neil