Thread: The Famous/Infamous Norton 4/8 "JaNorton 2012"

4th Shave

Razor : 7/8" W&B chopper

Method :

Again, I did 5 sweeping X-strokes on the N4k.

I then went to the N8k with just water. Using only the weight of the blade, I did 10 sweeping X-strokes again, then rinsed the hone, and did 10 more sweeping X-strokes with the OPPOSITE hand. Now, let me explain my thinking for trying that. When you use the same hand, and do X-strokes, the marks on the blade will be going one direction, and will for example, look like this on the edge:
___________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|

So, by switching hands to hone after doing passes with one hand, you are putting marks on that same side that will look like THIS:
___________
///////////////|

I thought that maybe doing this would essentially be making a finer edge. I would love to hear you guys thoughts on this theory!

Anyway, after doing those (10 X-strokes with both hands) I rinsed the hone and razor again, and did 10 X-strokes with my left-hand, then 10 X-strokes with my right hand with JUST the weight of the blade...no pressure.

I then stropped 40x on my homemade denim cloth strop, followed by 40x on my homemade cowhide leather strop.

Shave : I did my usual 2 pass shave (WTG, XTG), following the same prep procedures I always do. The shave this time seemed to be even closer that my previous shaves so far. There was no discomfort when applying witch hazel after my shave as I always do. This was my best shave to date for the JaNorton experiment. Next time, I'm not sure what I could do differently yet, so if I fail to come up with anything, I will do the same procedure, and see if I can get a shave just as good.

I have tried the same, but I used 10 edge leading, 10 edge trailing, same effect. I had good results with it, but I don't know yet if the results would have been the same with only edge leading strokes or not. Definitely worth a few tries.

Originally Posted by Maxi

Glenn.....these types of hints should be bolded and put in the Wiki...."New Honers, Read This" or something...

I found your bullet points to be very accurate. I hope many people read them. I know they're here and there, and that they come up once in a while in converstation, but you've put them all in one concise post.

Thanks!

+ 1 on that! I think there's a whole bunch of good tips there for us beginners (and anyone I guess). I'm going to re-hone the Klas Törnblom this afternoon, probably just on the 8k, but maybe I'll take it back to the four.

A couple of questions, 'swarf' is like metal taken from the razor, right? Like tiny little iron filings? So one shouldn't see that on the 8k stage? Sometimes I see that on my Shapton 16k; but I know that's an 'aggesive' hone. Also, if I see scatches on the edge under a magnifying glass (no idea what magnification it is), does that mean it needs more work (i.e. it shaves my leg hairs really well, and it shaves my face really well, just trying to get it 'perfect' (I know there's no such think as perfect really, I could hone for EVER and it could ALWAYS need more work). But what I intend to do it take it to the 8k for maybe ten laps, and then see if the scratches are still there. if they are, I'm suspecting I didn't spend enough time on the four, and might need to spend some time on the four at the light pressure stage. Does this sound reasonable?

PS, I could just leave it as it is, as it does shave really well, but that would be boring...

Carl, you got it....swarf is the metal that comes off during the honing stage. Sometimes if floats on the water and looks like iron filings, and sometimes it mixes with the slurry and goes all gunky and grey.

I am one of the believers that if you've used your Norton 4k correctly, that there will be little to no steel embedded on the 8k side when you start. It is normal to see a tad after 10 strokes or so, but I don't like to see it at 1 stroke.

Each stone, regardless of grit, is going to produce scratches on the blade. The idea, like sandpaper grits, is that the hones will make the scratches narrower and shallower with each progressing grit, thus making the edge keener and smoother. It's the change in the scratch pattern that really is important. For instance, and just for fun...do 2 or three circles on the 4k and then look under your magnification....then do 5 strokes on the 8k and look again....did the circle scratch pattern change at all? Your fingers will begin to tell you when you're getting smooth on each stone. You'll no longer feel any bumpity bumps or rough spots. It takes some practice.....

JaNORTuary 7th, 2012.

Razor: W&B 7/8 full hollow

Back from the cottage, had a pile of razor stuff sitting at the door. I'll hone them tomorrow....I honed mine tonite.

I took the W&B back to the stones. I did a 1,3,5,3,1,1 pryramid on the 4/8 combo using 5 8k strokes after every number on the 4k side. Then I cleaned the stones, and did water only on the 8k side. Experiment time; 8 forward strokes, 5 back honing strokes, 2 forward strokes (similar to Glen's 321 on the Shapton 30).

Stropped on SRD Premium III, 40/80.

Shave: Interestingly, the end result is fantastic. As I'm typing here, five minutes later, there is no irritation or stinging. However during the shave the razor just felt "sharp". It lacked the smoothness that the Dovo currently has, or that one gets from the natural finishers. It was sharp though. It plowed through everything, and if I was to say it was uncomfortable it would be because it lacked the smoothness, not because it pulled or tugged as it did last week.

Back to the hones tomorrow...just to the 8k. Some no pressure damp-stone strokes. We'll see where that goes.

Beer O'Clock. Ciao!

I went "back to the basics" today, after reading Glen's "New to honing, Read this" entry in the Wiki.

Flattened both sides of the stone with the DMT 325, taped the spine, hit the edge with a magic marker and did four sets of 25 sweeping x-strokes, paying attention to the toe and heel, retaping and remarking the edge after each set. By the fourth set, the marker was being removed evenly along the edge with a nice even scratch pattern, so I moved on the 8k.

Did two sets of 25 sweeping x-strokes with moderate pressure, another two sets with light pressure and then two sets with no pressure. To help me keep from applying pressure inadvertently, I borrowed the technique of balancing the stone in my hand so that any pressure would tip it that I had watched in a video about using a coticule. It was instructive to see how little pressure it took to unbalance the stone.

The edge was good enough at this point to effortlessly mow down arm hair, so I stropped it 30 laps on linen, 60 laps on leather and moved on to a shave.

Comfort and closeness were quite a bit better than I had produced with my previous efforts, except for my giving myself a nick with the point - first one in weeks. I'm going to blame it on the fact that the toe was nice and sharp for once.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to killing the edge on razor #2 and doing it all over again.

But tomorrow I am taking a break from JaNorton 2012 to enjoy the first shave with my newly delivered Wade & Butcher.

Rick

I shaved with the Greaves yesterday and today.

Yesterday's shave sucked.

Today's was very good.

The difference was all in shave prep. Yesterday I got up too early to have enough beard to shave and put it off until the afternoon, then I just wet my face with hot water. Normally I shave right after showering.

FROM NOW ON I will only shave right after showering.

The Greaves is good. Could be better. Will be better. But still good.

It also took me half the time to hone, which is ironic considering I chose it as the 'more challenging blade'.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

.....
A couple things:

Excellent point on the pressure I'm using with the lapping plate -- I had no idea how much you're supposed to use.
.....
I really want to get a DMT for this. It's an area where my general 'eh, cheap is good enough' approach has badly failed.
The cheap sandpaper left grit int he stone, the cheap diamond plate is too small. Nothing for it but spend the bucks on the *right* tool.
.....

To lap flat all you need is the weight of the hone.

Figure eights on a 12x12 bit of 3M coarse wet dry
will get you a flat hone if the 3M paper is on a flat
surface (glass cutting board). Running water helps.
It is important that the 4k and 8k sides have
the same shape/ profile. Flat is good but identical
is more important.

A monster DMT is the deluxe answer. A lesser
DMT even credit card size can tidy up the surface
and free grit from paper that attempted to embed itself
in the hone surface. A credit size DMT can refresh
the surface... once flat making a slurry or a refresh involves
abrading half the thickness of a sheet of paper. Consider that
most rubbing stones (nagura) are small.

Most black swarf rubs off with running water and rubbing
with the hand...

The first time, i.e. only once with a Norton 4k/8k is there a need
to remove more than the minimum amount of hone material.
That one time can involve some pressure and pressure.

Hey guys so its been a bit since i have posted here life has been crazy with flying back and forth to DC and Chicago taking care of my mom but thats a different story! So i was finally back in chicago where i left my norton and the razors i picked for the month and decided to decompress with a little honing and a possible, if all things worked out, shave......and well i'll be DAMNED the razors actually shaved! was it the best shave i have had since i started NO! But.....No irritation and no nicks or cuts AND it took off 6 days of growth! the last shave i had was on the 1st and hadn't had time to get one in before tonight! I have 3 razors, which will probably go back to 2 now that i know the original 2 actually shave and they all worked! The 2 original ones i picked were a Boker, it has some bad pitting at the toe on the top half of the barber notch and the edge had to be bread knifed....i know i know not always the thing to do but....it had a few bad chips at the edge and i figured that was the easier way to get past them....and i enjoy a challenge! The second is a Karbono Special Steal that isn't in all that bad shape and i have a shave ready one already so i figured it would be good to have a reference to what that steal can really do! Well the Boker was proving to be EXTREMELY difficult and i almost ditched it for the Understudy the New England Razor Co. blade so i was working on all 3. Well as i did my shave prep i grabbed my shavette JUST IN CASE none of them could actually take any hair off but BOY was i surprised when they did! I wanted to test all 3 and started with the Karbono on the right cheek and it cut smooth and felt pretty good. Then came the BIG test the Boker! I took it to the left cheek took a deep breath and prepared for disappointment and got EXCITEMENT when it too smoothly cut the hairs! Did a little on the neck with the New England just to see if it shaved and it did as well and i put it away for the original two! Did a 3 pass shave and made sure to try and use the whole edge on each to make sure i had honed to evenly across and they both did GREAT! DFS all around and VERY fulfilling to shave with a razor i honed! (if i acquire HAD because of this month can i blame Glen for enabling me?? ......hahahahaha ) But seriously it was AWESOME!!!!

Now on to the process......i for sure can't tell you the whole thing bc i have been working on the Boker for 3 days but i can tell you what i did today....

After having problems with a cutting edge all the way across the bevel and getting some tips from here i proceded as such with the Boker....

Norton 4k
40 circles with some spot specific pressure (20 each side)
40 LIGHT NO PRESSURE circles (20 each side)
30 X strokes diluting from light/spot pressure to no pressure and slurry (raised with DMT) to clear water
Leg Hair test...passed
5 more clear water X strokes no pressure

Norton 8k
Raise a small slurry with the DMT
40 X strokes using the same technique i used on the 4k

Strop IL 827
30 linen
60 leather

As for the Karbono since i didn't have the same evenness issue i did pretty much the same as above on the 4k but removed the 40 circles with spot pressure and just did 60 circles with VERY light to NO pressure and then did the same as above on the 8k and strop!

I think now that i know they shave may keep with the same for the Boker but try some experiments with the Karbono since it seems to be a little easier!

So in closing....this may be the longest post i have done to date!....i am having A BLAST and like i said it is extremely rewarding getting a decent shave from a razor i honed myself! Thanks for all the tips and this AWESOME idea glen! I'll make sure to keep letting you all know how it goes and i am SURE ill have more questions soon!!

Count me in! Wish I'd read this at the beginning of the month... haha