Thread: The Famous/Infamous Norton 4/8 "JaNorton 2012"

Originally Posted by BenjamanBarker

Alright so question for the group......I have been working on the Boker I picked for this month and it doesn't seem to want to take an edge all the way across. The middle and toe are doing great and was so excited when I FINALLY got it to cut hair I almost shaved my whole arm!! Hahaha but I can't seem to get the heal to grab. I've tried putting a bit more pressure when doing the strokes but it hasn't seems to help very much. Since I am/was a TOTAL noob to going any of the more experienced (really anyone here is more experienced than I so anyone) have any tricks and/or tips that I could try.

Thanks! And as frustrating as it can be I am having a blast learning!!

Does the razor have a shoulder on it? I suspect it does and that you are resting the shoulder on the stone. This will keep the heel from making good consistant contact with the hone.
Glenn

I just ordered a DMT325 from SRD so I can lap my Norton 4/8 Once that happens I'm gonna kill the edge on my GoldenRod Special 4/8 and see what I can do...

This will be my first time honing a razor, so hopefully it goes well

Another fine shave. Didn't feel like the lather finishing did anything. But worth the try .

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

I've threatened it.

Now I'm doing it. The video of me honing the first of my two JaNorton razors. As soon as I hit post on this, I'm going back to watch all the other videos posted here. But this would should be a really excellent way for newbies to see what a bunch of newbie mistakes actually look like when someone is making them for real.

WARNING! This video is an hour and five minutes long. Getting it edited together is why it took me until now to get it here. That and the fact that YouTube kept flagging one of the parts as containing copyrighted music

Anyone who watches the whole video gets one free trip into the future, exactly one hour and five minutes!

Nice job on the video. I watched the entire thing and know that you want feedback. Here are some of my observations (I'm sure others will chime in as well) in no particular order:
*Check to make sure your hone is flat (do a pencil grid lapping, see Glen's video). I noticed that the diamond plate you are using is not the same size as your hone and that you seem to spend much more time in the middle of the stone when cleaning it and building slurry (therefore I suspect you have low spots towards the middle). Also, when you turn the diamond plate perpendicular to the hone and continue to make strokes, you are still removing material, only making the dishing problem worse (specifically on the 4k side, watch your swarf in the video when you are honing and at points you can see it run towards the middle. I thought this may be because the surface the hone was on wasn't level, however it ran to the middle at both ends of the hone so that couldn't be it). Also, it appears you are using quite a bit of pressure when using the diamond plate on the stones, avoid doing this.

*Keep the shoulder off of the stone. There are several times in the video where you can see that the heel is not touching the stone due to starting with the shoulder on the hone (It's hard to see because your thumb is in the way, but this appears to be what is happening).

*your strokes seems to be heavy on the heel and lifting the toe of the razor off the hone. Work on your honing grip so that it allows you to perform a nice & even stroke. Try putting your ring finger and pinky finger under the scales and supporting them to keep the razor flat. Use the magic marker test to see where you are and aren't making contact with your stroke, this will teach you a ton and allow you to focus on fixing it.

*Choose a method before you start. Circles, pyramid, etc, but stick with it so you will be able to repeat it next time and build the muscle memory. (If you choose circles, try small tight circles vs large sweeping circles)

*Turn (spin) the stone while honing to account for variance in stroke every so often.

*Pressure for bevel setting is a good thing (moderate, not too heavy), then less pressure, then no pressure. This takes a while to get used to, however, there is NO pressure when finishing on the 4k and moving on to the 8k.

*If you develop swarf on the 8k, it means you went there too soon and need to go back to the 4k.

*Change your tape. Tape is softer than steel and wears out and thereby lowers the angle of honing as it wears away. A good rule of thumb is to change tape between grits or for JaNorton, I would advise between steps i.e. after bevel set, after 4k.

Thanks for taking the time to make this video. Stick with it
Glenn

Glenn.....these types of hints should be bolded and put in the Wiki...."New Honers, Read This" or something...

I found your bullet points to be very accurate. I hope many people read them. I know they're here and there, and that they come up once in a while in converstation, but you've put them all in one concise post.

Thanks!

Shaved with the Joseph Rodgers last night and like the CMon it shaved very well. The CMon seemed a bit more aggressive, that may be a result of the different steel. Again, I used much shorter strokes and had no weepers or problems.

Best shave yet!!! I did a little touch up last night and im happy to say the Puma shaves well and smooth this one wont see the norton unless it poops on me! OTOH i did touch up the Geneva as well and tested it and this one will need some work still....
probably do a small pyramid as the touch up i did last night didnt improved much.

Originally Posted by Maxi

Glenn.....these types of hints should be bolded and put in the Wiki...."New Honers, Read This" or something...

I found your bullet points to be very accurate. I hope many people read them. I know they're here and there, and that they come up once in a while in converstation, but you've put them all in one concise post.

Thanks!

Agree 100%. As a noob honer, I am absorbing as much of this as I can, but those are great bullet points to have on hand.

Originally Posted by jdto

Agree 100%. As a noob honer, I am absorbing as much of this as I can, but those are great bullet points to have on hand.

Originally Posted by Maxi

Glenn.....these types of hints should be bolded and put in the Wiki...."New Honers, Read This" or something...
I found your bullet points to be very accurate. I hope many people read them. I know they're here and there, and that they come up once in a while in converstation, but you've put them all in one concise post.

Thanks guys. I went ahead and added to the honing section of the wiki (Library for those newer). It is found here:
New to honing, Read this - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Thanks
Glenn

Originally Posted by sharp

Nice job on the video. I watched the entire thing and know that you want feedback. Here are some of my observations (I'm sure others will chime in as well) in no particular order:

Awesome! That is exactly the what I was hoping for!

And to the other newbies out there, it's worth noting, I got a usable razor *and* made that many mistakes. This is a doable thing!

A couple things:

Excellent point on the pressure I'm using with the lapping plate -- I had no idea how much you're supposed to use. Back at the beginning of my Norton, that 4k side was so rough and uneven I just got used to using heavy pressure because it was the only way to make the work of using it bearable.

I gridded it before I worked the next razor and it was, in fact, very slightly dished. I used the Norton flattening stone to even it out and then lapped it again with the same diamond plate.

I really want to get a DMT for this. It's an area where my general 'eh, cheap is good enough' approach has badly failed. The cheap sandpaper left grit int he stone, the cheap diamond plate is too small. Nothing for it but spend the bucks on the *right* tool.

Also, to a certain extent, I was intentionally going heavy on the heel and the toe because I knew from bevel setting that the razor has a very slight warp.

This is really one of those areas of 'enough knowledge to make worse mistakes', because I only now realize I wasn't varying the pressure to just the side that needed it. The uneveness only shows up on the front face of the blade, and I was applying the heel and toe pressure on both.

I deeply appreciate the time you took to watch the video and critique my method! Hooray for making mistakes in public where other people can learn from them!