Thread: Gokumyo 20k

Originally Posted by zib

Anyone currently using, or have used the Shapton GS stones? I'm wondering how the Gokumyo 20k compares to the Shapton 16k. I see the Guacamole is getting high praise.

_______________________________________

I have been following the Shapton GS 16k with the Gokumyo 20k. I like to think there is an improvement on the 20k. Many have said that the 16k has a tendency to give somewhat of a harsh edge. I think that is true to a certain extent. There is nothing harsh about the 20k whatsoever so it seems that a move up from the 16k to the 20k is a good thing.

However guacamole doesn't appeal to my Pennsylvania German meat & potatoes appetite.

Jerry

Originally Posted by kratos86

there is so much difference compared to Naniwa 12k to justify the price?
after the naniwa 12k i use strop linen and after lether,i have a great result....so you got me a great curiosity
i have seen that the hone have grain 0.5um ,....would not be more convenient to use a paste (0.5) at this point?

Finer hones like this are expensive and rare. They always cost a lot.
They are so slow that if you made an error in the 500-8k grit range these
will never fix the problem.

Paste on wood or leather will polish a lot finer than bound grit in a hone so
0.5 paste and a 0.5 hone are not equal. Most film cut faster so a 0.3micron
film could cut as fast as a 1-2 micron hone.

Given the costs I would look at quality film on something very flat like glass.
I would also look hard at spray grit on glass or even mild steel. Loose grit that
tumbles cuts fast. The sub micron spray for a strop applied on glass will tidy
up an edge then rinse clean for a different grit. The modern spray solutions are
under appreciated in my opinion.

A honemaster will have different views because a $23 bottle of spray will be gone in
no time for him while for me it could last years. Sub micron spray also gets double
value because it can also be used on a strop.

This discussion is interesting... In looking for vendors I stumbled on one of these new
hones where the grit on both sides was the same but the binder was different. The softer side
cut quickly but the hard side at the same grit cut finer and almost polished.
The grits were perfect for carbon steel kitchen knives....

Another pair is interesting:
Suehiro 'G8' finishing stone, #8000 (Green Carborundum)
Suehiro 'W8' finishing stone, #8000 (White Alundum)
This #8000 grit stone is one half of an uncommon pairing of stones.
From the web site....
"Usually, any given stone manufacturer will offer a single stone of a single grit in a stone 'family' and it will be of a particular composition.

In the case of this WA (White Alundum) #8000 grit stone, it is one of a pair of superficially identical stones, the other using GC (Green Carborundum) abrasive.

The difference between the two abrasives is not simple, but is distinct.

WA is a tougher, more resilient abrasive. It offers greater speed as the abrasive stays 'on size' for longer, and when it does break down, it loses it's sharpeness creating more of a polishing/burnishing effect. The edge should be brightly polished, smooth and sharp but missing some of the bite when compared to the GC stone.

GC is a harder, more brittle abrasive. It offers superior capability with harder, tougher steels but when the abrasive 'breaks down' it becomes smaller in size, but still quite sharp leaving a well polished, but slightly 'sharp' edge with more bite than the WA stone offers.

The difference between these two stones is not great, but for the well practised sharpener, the differences should be easily identified."

Suehiro 'W8' finishing stone, #8000 (White Alundum) : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.
Coticle lovers will understand...

Originally Posted by zib

Anyone currently using, or have used the Shapton GS stones? I'm wondering how the Gokumyo 20k compares to the Shapton 16k. I see the Guacamole is getting high praise.

Shaptons are odd.. comments from folk that know stuff commonly are "they just work".
They tend to not have competition. They are fast business like and fuss free. They stay flat.
They are expensive enough to keep the timid away. They are good enough that had I known then
what I know now I might only have one set of hones.

Don might sell a used one at a discount when there is only half a mm of material left. He might
be the only one to wear one out that I know of. Lynn might wear out hones faster but I in all
cases this would be rare so do not hold your breath for a used hone.

As usual, Nifty, you have offered a knowledgeable opinion. Now I will try to decipher what you posted, I have an insatiable need to understand all the complexities of any situation.

Jerry

My go to progression is Naniwa, usually 1k-5k-8k-12k, depending on how bad the edge is.
I don't really like to mess with the pastes so mostly just shaved from the 12k and it's been alright. Most of the time anyway.

If I add Gokumyo 20k after the Naniwa 12k, will it completely eliminate the need for pastes?

Ah screw it - I am such a sucker for a new hone that I couldn't wait and ordered one for myself anyway.

Originally Posted by olbez

Ah screw it - I am such a sucker for a new hone that I couldn't wait and ordered one for myself anyway.

Hee hee hee. And you thought RAD was bad. FWIW, 8 blades later, and I'm loving the new rock. None of this 100+ blades to get to know a new natural. No soaking, no slurry, no repeated lapping. Maybe just because I'm so used to and attached to the feel of an asagi edge, I still prefer 4-8 strokes on the natural after the G20, but the shave right off the G20 is quite satisfying also. 'Wish I had this before I bought my first natural.

Originally Posted by pinklather

Hee hee hee. And you thought RAD was bad. FWIW, 8 blades later, and I'm loving the new rock. None of this 100+ blades to get to know a new natural. No soaking, no slurry, no repeated lapping. Maybe just because I'm so used to and attached to the feel of an asagi edge, I still prefer 4-8 strokes on the natural after the G20, but the shave right off the G20 is quite satisfying also. 'Wish I had this before I bought my first natural.

Arent'you going down on grit by making strokes on a nat after the G20?

Nope. There are some naturals that are lower grit - coticules come to mind. On another forum some talk about a rare, gifted coti they describe in the 15k range, but the better jnats & thuris are quite fine.

Originally Posted by olbez

Arent'you going down on grit by making strokes on a nat after the G20?

Apples & oranges. The particles are even a different shape let alone their action.