Thread: The Filarmonica

Originally Posted by edhewitt

However saying that all of your anecdotal research is more valid than photographic evidence (in the case of how hones affect edges) is a bit of a claim.

But I never said that. I said, there is no what you call "tangible proof" as to how certain hones affect razor edges. Shots of edges in and by themselves, however, prove exactly nothing. And if you subscribe to Glenn's theories, you should be even more sceptical of them. Because allegedly, there is no tangible proof for an ideal blade angle (hint: 17°, give an take 1°).

Besides, mine is not anecdotal but corroborating evidence. Which is something else entirely. Either way, Popper to the rescue.

Originally Posted by edhewitt

As to your ascertation that various members have "mysteriously disapeared from this forum", can you provide some evidence?

Of course I can. But I will not. Well, actually, I cannot, because I never said that "various members" had disappeared. Just one. Well, let sleeping dogs die, and all that. If you must, ask Google about "Operation True Blue". It was the closest anyone ever came to the scientific analysis of particular hones, but we are getting widely off topic here.

To get back on topic, does anyone have a logical explanation (tangible proof would, of course, be better somehow) how the allegedly Spanish blades made it to Germany and dozens of different makers who were active at different times in history yet somehow all ended up with virtually identical blades.

Well I am glad your are back Robin, you are like the Julien Assange of straight razors.

Originally Posted by RobinK

It is indeed. You can ask the companies and craftsmen which are still there (a scant few), and why would they lie? They have nothing to gain from badmouthing their own industry, have they? So when several people who were actually there when it happened tell me very much the exact same story, I tend to believe them more than vendors and collectors. Because both of the latter actually do have something to lose.


Oh, you mean like Heljestrand and Hellberg? Well, yes, that may be a little sad for the investor. Believe you me, I was a bit miffed when they these old craftsmen shared their opinions about Puma razors. I have a few. I really like them. I do not want to believe they were considered [censored], but upon closer inspection, I do not find them quite as great as I once did.

I my previous career here, I used to pester Lynn and others with the one question which probably every novice (and I consider myself a novice after roughly a decade dealing with this hobby still) would love to see answered, "what is the best razor", and the answer was, "well this brand and that one, and this one too, oh, and don't forget that one over there." There is no holy grail, and I personally believe that there certainly is no one single brand that outperforms everything else. If there were, people would have noticed. Moreover, it would have reached world domination fairly quickly back then, but not one brand ever did. We are, and we often forget that, talking about the vintage equivalent of hair-dryers or washing machines. Except for souvenir razors and seven day sets, we are looking at household items which were bought because they either worked, or they did not. Go back a few years in SPR's archive before that famous shot Max posted, and read about what people thought about Filarmonica razors back then. "Solid performer, decent price" was the general verdict. The raving reviews started afterwards, and prices skyrocketed. I know a guy who about 18 months back came across a few boxes full of NOS Filarmonicas. He is selling them piecemeal to keep prices up, and that is a very nice way to get a lot of money. Which is great for him, but also tells you a bit about the market, and why prices have been a bit off for the last five years.

Then again, what is wrong with having a high quality razor even if you overpaid? I have exactly one Filarmonica left which I refuse to sell because I overpaid (by my standards, ie something like $125), and I refuse to rip off some innocent buyer by selling it at the current going rate. However, I would still recommend getting one, if you can get it for less than $150, simply because they are rock solid razors, and because finding a Solingen #14 for a sensible price can be a bit hard. One per year on average so far, as I said. But it can be done.

Thank you for posting that. I thought I was going nuts when I could not detect much difference between brands of razors from various countries in how well they actually shaved. They may feel different in use because of the grind but given a good edge they all seem to manage to shave well. I do have my preferences but it is not solely brand based. Anyway, thank you again for that bit of sanity.

Bob

Originally Posted by RobinK

. And if you subscribe to Glenn's theories, you should be even more sceptical of them. Because allegedly, there is no tangible proof for an ideal blade angle (hint: 17°, give an take 1°).

Sorry Robin but once again you are in error and mis-stated things and got that backwards, but then again that will probably be answered by your standard rebuttal of "I never said that"

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Sorry Robin but once again you are in error and mis-stated things and got that backwards, but then again that will probably be answered by your standard rebuttal of "I never said that"

But Glen, you should know better than to accuse me of errors. Here is some readable proof. But that is a different matter entirely. To get back on topic, would you happen to have a logical explanation how the allegedly Spanish blades made it to Germany and dozens of different makers who were active at different times in history yet somehow all ended up with virtually identical blades? I think that would help clear things up a little. Thanks!

Kind regards,
Robin

Originally Posted by RobinK

Well, the joys of growing up near Solingen and knowing some of the old craftsmen there...

[LIST=1][*]Called Herkenrath, asked them who made the #14 blanks. They did, no one else. First mystery solved.

Robin, if you have the wherewithal to ask some of these old time craftsman, who 'know where the bodies are buried', who made dubl duck, FWE, Bartmann, C-Mon, and like that, back 'in the day,' that would be really cool. Rumor is that Dovo made the dubl ducks at the very end of the Pearlson era, but I'd like to have that confirmed, and to know if it was Puma, what I've always suspected, who made them in the heyday ?

Originally Posted by RobinK

But Glen, you should know better than to accuse me of errors. Here is some readable proof. But that is a different matter entirely. To get back on topic, would you happen to have a logical explanation how the allegedly Spanish blades made it to Germany and dozens of different makers who were active at different times in history yet somehow all ended up with virtually identical blades? I think that would help clear things up a little. Thanks!

Kind regards,
Robin

Well, I have more than my fair share of #14's.
Funny thing is, they vary much more than what you are trying to indicate in your recent posts here.
(mine are all bought NOS by the way, just to get that out of the way)
I have posted pics on here pointing that out.
The difference is striking really, especially when it comes to width of the spine.
Almost double the width on certain brands compared to others.
Quite uniform on the various makes though..

So your precious German friends down there in Solingen were either exceptionally sloppy in their grinding, or they didn't in fact make all #14's as you keep claiming.
Others possibly made their varieties as well, as proposed by some.
That must be hard for a proud German to accept, but that's an issue you'd have to deal with yourself.

Sure, they may have made a bulk of the #14's down at Henckenrath, but all? Nope, my collection of 14§s does not support that claim at all.

And for the record, while I am a "collector" of amongst other razors, the Filarmonica brand ones, I really don't care at all about this any more.
This horse has bean beaten to death numerous times already.

Some of the debates on this topic from years back were quite entertaining, but brought, much like this one, nothing new to this community.

Originally Posted by Birnando

Almost double the width on certain brands compared to others. Quite uniform on the various makes though.

Just like today, is it not? You get Dovos, Wackers, and various other razors. And people stare at them in wonder and discuss their different qualities. But at the end of the day, each and every one of these razors was ground from one of four types of Herkenrath blanks.

Originally Posted by Birnando

So your precious German friends down there in Solingen were either exceptionally sloppy in their grinding, or they didn't in fact make all #14's as you keep claiming.

Maybe you should calm down a little first, my friend. Firstly, I never said they ground all the #14 blades. Second, are not your jingoistic slurs a little unbecoming for a moderator? Or have standards slipped dramatically in my absence?

Originally Posted by Birnando

That must be hard for a proud German to accept, but that's an issue you'd have to deal with yourself.

Adding condescension to jingoism. Why? Are you finding it difficult to answer a simple question without resorting to ad hominem attacks?

Originally Posted by Birnando

Sure, they may have made a bulk of the #14's down at Henckenrath, but all? Nope, my collection of 14§s does not support that claim at all.

Are you seriously claiming that you can detect the origin of a blank by looking at the finished blade? Chapeau! That is a very rare talent, indeed. In fact, I know of no other person capable of this particular trick.

Have fun!
Robin

P.S. Hi, Jimmy! I'll ask around. The Dubl Duck story is a long one, and it does involve Puma and Dovo, but that is not saying much, because both "subcontracted" heavily.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Just like today, is it not? You get Dovos, Wackers, and various other razors. And people stare at them in wonder and discuss their different qualities. But at the end of the day, each and every one of these razors was ground from one of four types of Herkenrath blanks.


Maybe you should calm down a little first, my friend. Firstly, I never said they ground all the #14 blades. Second, are not your jingoistic slurs a little unbecoming for a moderator? Or have standards slipped dramatically in my absence?


Adding condescension to jingoism. Why? Are you finding it difficult to answer a simple question without resorting to ad hominem attacks?


Are you seriously claiming that you can detect the origin of a blank by looking at the finished blade? Chapeau! That is a very rare talent, indeed. In fact, I know of no other person capable of this particular trick.

Have fun!
Robin

Please help a fellow member out Robin, by keeping to a simple Appalachian dialect, cause I've had to GOOGLED "4" of your words already,,,,,,

Ok guys, as fun as this is. Keep the discussion on topic and stop arguing about the argument itself.