Thread: The Filarmonica

What is funny Robin is that really nobody doubts what you heard and that you believe it wholeheartedly.. With you however it has been a pet agenda of yours for over 5 years so what I myself doubt is your objectivity..
You see one thing and dismiss anything that doesn't agree with your "Faith" so basically any actual discussion is simply an argument on semantics, deflection, and how to argue..

Now personally if I had a pet agenda and got the rare opportunity to sit across the table with a true craftsman I probably would have bought a few more drinks and tried to get an Interview on camera. or perhaps ask if there was a shred of proof available to have in my hand, or a pic of.. Basically all you are giving here is what is called "Hearsay evidence" and your personal opinion of designs..

Something, Anything..

Also you have shifted several times during the last 12 hours so what exactly were you told

Are you saying that Jose' ie: Filarmonica et al were simply importers
or are you saying that rough blanks were sent out and ground and finished elsewhere
and are we talking all the razors or just the #14 you have eluded to all this so far, and I obviously don't want to put words in your mouth and hear the infamous "I never said that"


Please clarify as succinctly as possible..

Noun: Hearsay

information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
"according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"
synonyms: rumor, gossip, tittle-tattle, idle talk; More
stories, tales;
informal the grapevine, scuttlebutt, loose lips


Law
the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
"everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"

Originally Posted by RobinK

P.S. Hi, Jimmy! I'll ask around. The Dubl Duck story is a long one, and it does involve Puma and Dovo, but that is not saying much, because both "subcontracted" heavily.

Robin, of course there are the Bresduck Puma-ducks. As you probably realize, I'm not referring to those, rather to the standard Bresduck, Pearlduck stuff. Goldedge, Special, Wonderedge, and what have you.

Am I mistaken, or didn't Puma have a large factory in Solingen since 1769 ? I couldn't imagine them subcontracting with that resource at their disposal. I wonder which brands came out of their own factories in the years before, and after WWII ? Which were made at one of the large factories and re-branded with the well known logos we know from the golden years ? BTW, maybe with those old grinders it is like a "Ford versus Chevy" argument, but AFAIC Puma razors, from 'back in the day' will stand with any ever made .......... and so will Heljestrands.

Robin, I am very fond of early to mid-century Pumas. I have a hard time conceiving that they were considered %?&*, because I find their quality beyond reproach. If I compare it to other leading German makers of the time, Dorko, Globusmen, Bartmann etc.. they are not better nor worse. So how can it be a product of subpar apprentice grinding? If it really is, I must be unable to tell the difference between a %?&* razor and quality razor.
I am curious to know what the old timers you spoke to consider to be the work of skilled craftsmen of that period? Thanks

When there is a lack of sufficient detailed physical evidence, company records, of a consumer product from so long ago of what went to whom it is anybody's guess. Even talking to the few people left alive that were involved in the production of the consumer goods from so long ago about what went on does not necessarily yield accurate information. Memory of events so long ago can be clouded by time, the tellers perspective and personal prejudices can slant and colour what is recalled. All you are left with is uncertainty that will likely never be truly resolved. No real point in debating it on that basis alone. Best you can do is enjoy the elderly consumer goods for what they are and can do.

Bob

This is all quite interesting.

I have a stamped Puma #14 blade around here somewhere. Now I'll have to go find it.

Yo

Originally Posted by Lynn

This is all quite interesting.

I have a stamped Puma #14 blade around here somewhere. Now I'll have to go find it.

Yo

That would like looking for a needle in a haystack ! ! ..........

Originally Posted by RobinK

Just like today, is it not? You get Dovos, Wackers, and various other razors. And people stare at them in wonder and discuss their different qualities. But at the end of the day, each and every one of these razors was ground from one of four types of Herkenrath blanks.


Maybe you should calm down a little first, my friend. Firstly, I never said they ground all the #14 blades. Second, are not your jingoistic slurs a little unbecoming for a moderator? Or have standards slipped dramatically in my absence?


Adding condescension to jingoism. Why? Are you finding it difficult to answer a simple question without resorting to ad hominem attacks?


Are you seriously claiming that you can detect the origin of a blank by looking at the finished blade? Chapeau! That is a very rare talent, indeed. In fact, I know of no other person capable of this particular trick.

Have fun!
Robin

P.S. Hi, Jimmy! I'll ask around. The Dubl Duck story is a long one, and it does involve Puma and Dovo, but that is not saying much, because both "subcontracted" heavily.

First off, I am calm, no worries mate.

Second, we have discussed this ad nauseam on numerous occasions before.
Here or on the various other foras out there, past or present.
As usual there is no consensus to be had, nor will there ever be, sadly.
There really isn't anything new here, from either side, so I'll bow out of this

Keep at it gents

Hi Robin, welcome back mate!

My #14 shaves very nicely, wherever it came from.

As always, it's excellent to see robust debate with each side putting forward their evidence/views/suspicions/whatever. Even if it never gets "resolved" (by which I mean everyone agrees, which as we all know it won't - this is SRP after all ) I've always thought these kinds of discussions are very beneficial and illuminating in more ways than one.

James.

RobinK, this is your collection?
Nice