Evidence of Filarmonica Manufactured in Solingen?????

**Magpie** · 12-13-2014, 06:13 AM

Its not such a stretch to think that Filly got SOME of their steel from Germany. Also not a stretch to think they got it all. Did any of you guys click the link that Richmondesi provided in the beginning of this thread? The advertisement shows what appears to be a joint collaboration between Spain and Germany on the Palmera brand. So why not the Filly?
Not to mention, if the import duty on German steel had gotten too high at some point anywhere along the way, it is VERY conceivable that the Germans simply shipped the unfinished (or even finished) razors to Spain where the country of manufacture treaty might not have existed. (we know it existed for goods coming to the US, did it include goods going to Spain?) And then from Spain to the US, where Spain may have had a far more favorable tariff rate at the time.
I know they pulled the same stunt with the honey market. Cheap China honey not permitted in the US, so they shipped it to Argentina, who put it in their own barrels, and then sent it to the US as Argentinian honey.

**SirStropalot** · 12-13-2014, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by sharptonn

So if the blanks were not marked, finished and hardened, perhaps I might bring up a tale I heard of Filarmonica using molten lead in their process? No kidding! I read that somewhere.....HONEST!

Molten lead is used sometimes in the heat treatment of straight razors. First the blade is dipped in graphite powder. The below video says that the lead adds strength to the metal. Actually it's probably the carbon in the graphite that does this. The lead gives the proper temp.

Most of the vid is Dovo and overall is an interesting look at razor manufacturing.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_nRYltQ-Y

**Magpie** · 12-13-2014, 06:32 AM

I wouldn't want to work in the room where that lead bath is. Those guys probably end up with all sorts of lung problems.

**SirStropalot** · 12-13-2014, 06:36 AM

Yeah,

Probably more neural symptoms.

**Bruno** · 12-13-2014, 09:25 AM

Guys, personal attacks and insults have no place here, and neither do replies that are intentionally designed to be provocative. Calling people's mental health into question in a public forum is just as bad. No matter how expensive the words that are used, I think we can all agree that that line of discussion is not going to be productive or in good spirit. And you know that in advance so just don't.

**Bruno** · 12-13-2014, 09:28 AM

As for the molten lead, I was told that TI still uses molten lead heat treatment, or at least did so not too long ago.
From a thermal pov, molten lead is probably better than molten salt.
But yes, it is probably not healthy. Then again, if you look at Ralf Aust makes razors today, OHSA would have a fit about that as well.

**Magpie** · 12-13-2014, 02:08 PM

OSHA would have a fit just over the fact that somebody is making something sharp and pointy.

I'm curious as to the lead being used for the temper, or for the actual hardening temps?

**JimmyHAD** · 12-13-2014, 03:21 PM

Here is a blurb from the Wikipedia (not ours) on this ;

Thiers Issard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lead hardening

The steel is hardened through a special process using a bath of molten lead where the forged steel blade is immersed at 800 °C (degrees Celsius).[1] The efficient metal-to-metal heat transfer, from the surrounding lead to the steel blade, enables fast and uniform heating of the steel at the optimum temperature for maximum hardness. The steel is tempered following the hardening process, where at 300 °C the steel becomes flexible and brittleness is eliminated according to phase diagrams for steel.[1][7]

Thiers Issard is allowed by special exemption in French law to continue using this lead hardening process, while health concerns prohibit its use by any other manufacturer.[1] As in, don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon ........

IIRC I've read that the Wonderedge (dubl duck) was also treated with a special hardening technique. I know they seemed more difficult to hone than the other ducks I've encountered. Might have been cyro hardening ?

Cryogenic hardening - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**sharptonn** · 12-13-2014, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Here is a blurb from the Wikipedia (not ours) on this ;

Thiers Issard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lead hardening

The steel is hardened through a special process using a bath of molten lead where the forged steel blade is immersed at 800 °C (degrees Celsius).[1] The efficient metal-to-metal heat transfer, from the surrounding lead to the steel blade, enables fast and uniform heating of the steel at the optimum temperature for maximum hardness. The steel is tempered following the hardening process, where at 300 °C the steel becomes flexible and brittleness is eliminated according to phase diagrams for steel.[1][7]

Thiers Issard is allowed by special exemption in French law to continue using this lead hardening process, while health concerns prohibit its use by any other manufacturer.[1] As in, don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon ........

IIRC I've read that the Wonderedge (dubl duck) was also treated with a special hardening technique. I know they seemed more difficult to hone than the other ducks I've encountered. Might have been cyro hardening ?

Cryogenic hardening - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Was more likely TI I had read about, Jimmy! I do remember the 'special exemption' thing now! Thanks.
Carry on, Gents!

**Magpie** · 12-13-2014, 05:33 PM

Great info Jimmy. Thanks!

The box from my Wonderedge says "electrohardened" and I also recall reading some where that they also received a freeze treatment.
My guess would be a form of induction heating.

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