Off-Topic Forum Suspension Disussion

[Bruno]

I have put some more thought into this, and I don't think restricting topics is a good long term solution.

for example, assume we have a ban on politics. One of the things I would like to start a topic on is with the oncoming US presidential elections, how US people think about the idea of splitting the electoral college of a state proportionally to the voting results. this is simply a topic of interest to me.

Since this is a political topic, it would be forbidden to discuss it while it is harmless in and of itself.
Then take something like traffic regulations for example. that topic would be allowed, but someone intent on creating troubles could just as easily wreak havoc there. Ditto for alcohol, movies or even Belgian Chocolates. Any topic can b ehijacked or derail.

In the end, I don't think topics should be banned but certain behaviour.
I have been a part of nearly all controversial discussions in the last 6 months or so. I have often disagreed with others, and on occasion really had a serious disagreement / misunderstandin with another member. But in those rare cases things got smoothed out in a couple of hours.

This proves that it all depends on the people. If we hadn't been positive and reasonable men, those things would have gone wrong as well, but they didn't. It is not the topics themselves that cause problems. It is how people react.

If you ban troublemakers or put them on probation or make them read only for a while or restrict them from the OT forum or whatever... Then you punish the right people. Banning topics is punishing the wrong people for the actions of the few.

[floridaboy]

While I do not agree with censorship. I also understand that people are very different. One of the good things I got from the military. The Avatar that i use is my badge from the French Foreign Legion Commando School. I was about 20 years young when I went to that school, With a full platoon of American Infantry. We were treated as the French soldiers. We ate what they ate, lived like they lived. For a young man from the beaches of Florida it was sure different, but it helped us learn what the French soldier was all about, and exposed us to that culture. I like the glimpses into others lives that the off topic forum gives. it does help us look at other people, and with 3,000 members, other countries (mmmm Belgium chocolates). I don't know how many moderators are assigned to each forum, I don't know that any moderators are assigned any were. I do think that Fud, for the circumstance that he is in does a heck of a good job, maybe he could use more help. I don't know. I do know that I have gotten allot of good things from the off topic, ie grilling recipes, What do you look like. I really will Look forward to the return of this section.

well I've spent about a nickels Worth

Phil

[Bruno]

For example, most of us use a different vocabulary and demeanor when we are discussing politics at church than we use when we are doing so at the pub... so why can't we do the same here? Why is it so unacceptable to require us to act with the level of civility required here?

It isn't. My rule since the the day I entered the internet is that I don't write anything I would mind my employer and my family to read.

I follow the same rule when discussing anything in the pub. That way I don't end up on the curb, spitting my teeth out.
Internet forums generally (with some unfortunate exceptions) don't carry that risk, so people sometimes think that anything goes.

[azjoe]

My rule since the the day I entered the internet is that I don't write anything I would mind my employer and my family to read.

That's a great rule and I'm sure it serves you well.

But I have to say... I'm handicapped by the fact that my brother (who can't understand a sentence it doesn't contain half a dozen 4-letter words) and what I can say to my Wife (who rarely uses a 4-letter word and is offended to hear them) are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm in real trouble when they're together... which doesn't happen very often for obvious reasons.

[jaegerhund]

The problem is that while you might be able to handle all sorts of language, criticisms, insults, etc. not all members can and even less want to. Many members expect a certain level of civility or they leave. So do we want the forums to be only for those like yourself, or do we want to accommodate others with thinner skins?

I don't accept the answer of "well, if you find it offensive, don't read it"... that is not only exclusionary, but it requires those likely to be affected to become offended to make the decision to read or not. Further, I believe there are some legal issues that require forums to take down content people find offensive in some circumstances.

It occurs to me that in our every day lives most all of us are able to manage ourselves in similar situations... we pick the common denominator of civility appropriate to the situation and are perfectly able to interact just fine. For example, most of us use a different vocabulary and demeanor when we are discussing politics at church than we use when we are doing so at the pub... so why can't we do the same here? Why is it so unacceptable to require us to act with the level of civility required here?

O.K. but let's not go around parading ourselves as Gentlemen (which I don't claim to be anyway) ---to be a gentleman assumes that somewhere in there that you are a man -- this sounds to me more like the acts of a bitter, passive aggressive woman --
yep --- when I vision a gentleman, I think of a well tuned man, with a backbone, who can handle differences of all types without shutting down when the insults start or the discussion gets a little wild --- but if we want some artificial notion of civility, then so be it.

I know, as a good southern boy should, the concept of limiting the talk of religion, sex, and politics in certain situations ----I was raised on it -- but this is of all things an internet forum --- not a church gathering or a family dinner.

In all honesty the off topic section is not that important to me, but the idea of men actually being men is.

Justin

[Lynn]

The one thing I have always liked about this place has been the ol' barber shop feeling we have established including the good ol' barber shop talk and then some. Every now and then when things get heated the responsible parties invariably start casting accusations and get pretty ugly and eventually not even related to the initial discussion. Sometimes the group even attacks the barber, but the shop has always remained open. There seems like there should be some solution short of roaming around the forum in disgust and making anyone else miserable along the way.

Our Moderators who volunteer their time are doing the best they can and I haven't seen the loudest complainers stepping up to that plate to help out ever. Our Admin's could never be repaid for the amount of time they have spent building this place and maintaining it. I would hope that as we look for direction here, we remain thankful to those folks who help make this place available to us all without asking anything for themselves.

We have never been dictatorial here nor have we been the kumbayah place for every one. I really hope we figure this one out as this is an awesome environment with a really super group of people who have grown way beyond simply preserving the art of straight razor shaving which has always been our driving spirit.

Lynn

[FiReSTaRT]

I am sorry that one member raised enough of a stink to push things over the edge. It happens when people take attacks on their ideas too personally. I'd like to see the o/t forum come back, but I'd also like to see more civil behavior in it. Another option would be from a streetbike forum that I'm a member of.. Obviously that forum is full of teenagers with their hormones raging. For that reason, it's heavily moderated, but it has a section called "The Romper Room" where anything goes. How about splitting O/T into 2 forums:
1) Regular O/T, basically families, bikes, construction projects etc etc etc, but no inflamatory topics.
2) Romper Room, where it's a free for all.. Don't like it? Don't read it.

[jnich67]

I think everyone is raising valid points here, but my gut tends to agree to a large extent with Justin. I'll just throw this out there. Every now and then we have these blow ups and someone leaves or may be asked leave. Or some, who are put off, leave without really getting into it. Well, maybe that's ok.

People will make their decisions to leave or stay and that's up to them. As long as the moderators and Lynn are consistent in keeping the site in line with their vision - it is what it is. I think less limitation on discussion is better than more and if some can't deal with that and have to leave, then so be it.

Am I making any sense?

Jordan

[xman]

Listen. If the mods can't or won't handle the OT atmosphere then it must remain absent. The truth is, we were actually doing pretty well policing ourselves. A mountain has been made out of a mole hill here and now there's a bloody big snow ball. (how's that for a mixed metaphor?) Ilija's suggestion has merit, but I don't think the mods have the commitment for that much organisation, or that the members would always 'get' the difference between two OT forums.

Sure I lose my Building 7 thread which is convenient suppression of information, but there's a lot more culturally negative stuff which goes on there, like "How big is your gun?" and "Support the Troops" which will fit less well in other forums and I can take that deal.

If the mods can't hack it, lets not have it.
Stressing them out in OT sometimes gets them acting badly themselves.

X

[Bruce]

I had a very pithy comment on this matter, hit the wrong key, and lost it all. Which in essence is why I don't give a whit whether we have it or not. I'm not that adept at typing, so likely I'll never participate in something other than what I joined the SRP for: info on straight razors and shaving with them.

That said, I think getting excited about written debate wastes time. Without the clues of the non-verbal aspect of conversation, much of what is written is really useless, although it can be excellent for raising hackles.

Continue the OT Forum? Sure. Furl the curtain and let the players strut and fret their hour on the stage. Their words can be full of sound and fury signifying nothing and it won't matter much. The Bard said something like that only much better. Those, who get their knickers wadded up about something, can go play in another sandbox for a while and then return to this one after they have had a chance to cool down and straighten things out.

Bruce - now hit the right key, idiot