Off-Topic Forum Suspension Disussion

[JMS]

Well that must have been one hell of a conversation...Im both sorry and glad I missed it

If you look at uclickers thread "Help??" I explain the situation without going into too much detail! just the gist of it!

[FiReSTaRT]

I have 2 valid defenses...
1) No formed opinion on the topic
2) I was doing some work south of the border (NV to be more specific), so my srp-participation suffered.

[JMS]

I have 2 valid defenses...
1) No formed opinion on the topic
2) I was doing some work south of the border (NV to be more specific), so my srp-participation suffered.

No need to be defensive. You can be the source of all evil during the day shift and I'll be the source off all evil on the night shift!!

[Quick Orange]

I've been a part of forums both this size, smaller, and way bigger, and they all go through this sort of thing. There's never a total solution, but it's been my experience in the past that after a blowup and OT forums are taken away, people tend to chill out. Everyone comes to the agreement that potentially hazardous conversations will be discussed honorably rather than like a pissing contest. The mods will step in and give a warning if things start getting hot, and close it if it gets too hot.

The OT forums here have been great. I think I've learned almost as much from them as I have the other ones. I vote for bringing them back and us all acting courteous...I've seen so many other, less sophisticated forums do it, surely we can.

[rtaylor61]

Unfortunately, this isn't the only shaving forum that has issues with OT threads. I'll toss out my 2 cents worth as a moderator from SMF and B&B and as a guest of Lynn and his fine staff here.

We come here looking for information and guidance. About straight razors and shaving. Just read the header. Nothing about politics, religion, booze, etc. So we come here looking for that specific type of information. And by golly, there is no cover charge. It's free. To the members. Someone is footing the bill. But we ask, learn, buy, overspend, and somewhere along the way, we make friends. And we stop asking so many questions and start answering them. A friendly forum. We share a kindred spirit of support. We rejoice when someone posts pics of their new arrival. And we give our support when someone suffers a hardship or looses a loved one. So it is only natural when, in an OT forum, we start asking about motorcycles, fountain pens, hats, whiskey or scotch or bourbon or coffee. We have a lot in common, so what better place to ask? We share jokes, we post pics of what we look like so we can know each other better. Right now we have a thread on soaps where bologna sandwich ideas are being shared. Wow. And we have topics we disagree on. I like a Honda (remember, I sell their cars), you like a Harley. I like Quaker State, you select Pennzoil. We flippantly disagree on these things, no harm, no foul. But certain topics don't go down this way. Politics. Religion. My country vs. your country.

Most topics can be cordial. Others can't. And when a topic that brings forth passion is introduced, then the flames begin. Politics is one of these topics. Religion is another. Pick your poison here. And the discussion ends, the arguing begins. And since we are all sitting at different computers, the argument has no end. No one can win. But the heat from the flames will rise. Certain topics do not belong in a shaving forum. There are other forums for those topics. And the argument of "free speech" falls flat here. Yes, the internet is public. But this is a private forum and we are allowed to participate. Censorship? Give me a break. This is a shaving forum. Talk about shaving all you want. Lynn never banned me for posting SOTD pics with DE razors! He allowed it. Never said a word. Lynn always says "Have Fun". That is why we are here. It would be nice to say we could discuss any topic without issue. But has been proven here and on the other shaving forums, we can't.

In the short time I've been here, we've lost a few good members over topics that should have been avoided. I would like to see the OT forum brought back, with a few specific guidelines. Some things just don't belong here.

Final thought. If you believe that free speech and censorship are major concerns, then go to the expense and effort of starting your own forum. Let the dogs run wild. This is a family friendly forum. There is that word again. Friendly. Let's keep it that way. Agree or disagree, I don't care. Really. It's a shaving forum. That is why I am here. Let's have fun!

RT

[majurey]

+1. That's pretty much how I feel, RT.

I joined this forum for a specific purpose. To learn how to use a straight razor. When I joined, I spent hours of my time reading the various shaving-related forums -- time spent on the OT forum was minimal. Frankly, it looked like a place for the more experienced, known, or vocal members to hang out and shoot the breeze. But my primary interest was to learn.

Over time, I have enjoyed some of the OT topics as much as anyone. But this latest situation has made me focus on why I come here. Bottom line: to learn.

So although I would miss the OT forum, I'd get over it pretty quickly and continue to learn more about what I came here for originally.

And you know what? That would be just fine. SRP would be just as awesome -- a 'shell' packed full of great stuff!

[WireBeard]

"If good manners were lost, it would be necessary for the next gentleman to rediscover them" - Ralph Waldo Emerson


I feel the Off Topic forum should return, albeit with very clear Rules of Conduct and a clear statement of the steps the moderator(s) may take, should they deem the rules to have been violated.

(Lynn may recognize this next part, though paraphrased) "Indecorous behavior is dangerous to the harmony of the forum. It is in such an atmosphere that ill will and hard feelings, not to mention the more serious menace of splits and feuds, are most likely to take root to the great danger of the actual intent of the forum. A Moderator who permits the intrusion of such indecorum is not faithful to the duties of his office."

I believe a combination of the standard rules of debate and rules of order would serve the OT thread well.

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Proposal:

1. Post a sticky containing the rules at the top of every forum. Yes, everyone said "I agree" when joining, but how many people actually read the entire list?

2. Objectionable content (as outlined above, esp. in the red text) would result in the entire post being removed, not just select words deleted or replaced with ******. I believe this causes more acrimony than just removing the entire post. It leaves a partial text which only inflames curiosity (it's the same type of curiosity which makes you look at an accident as you drive past..."Ooo...what did he post?"). The Moderator would have an obligation of advising the poster of the deletion, the reason why (quoting the rules), and advise the member to refrain from such behavior. There is no need to advise the entire site that someone was censured (and yes, I mean censured, not censored)

3. Complaints from members regarding objectionable content would be review expeditiously and both members involved in a private discussion as to the proper conduct. This puts the offending party on notice and required the offended party to stand up and support his complaint. You may not know you have offended unless you are told as much. I know, hard to believe, but you would be amazed what people do not consider offensive. Also, having the offended party involved will prevent "retaliatory" complaints or those who seek to silence other by claiming offense. The parameters of what is offensive are outlined above. Presenting an opposing view, without personal attacks, profanity or defamatory language does not fall within these parameters.

4. If a moderator sees a thread getting out of control, he would advise the owner to address the issue or lock the thread, in the case where there are too many violators to handle individually. The moderator would place a final posting and that woudl be the end of it.

5. I would add a short list of "Netiquette" - using smiley/emoticons, what all caps means, definition of flaming, etc.

6. Specifically for the OT thread, I would place a permanent notice on the OT index page, stating what the thread is to be used for and that controversial topics may be found inside - including conflicting opinions, a restatement of the etiquette rules, what the moderators will do if their are violations, and that if the reader does not feel they can engage in healthy debate, they should avoid participating in those threads. This is not a "if you don't like it, change the channel" approach, but is in keeping with motion picture ratings, TV show warnings, etc. It leaves the choice up to the reader.

7. Most of all, the Golden Rule should be adhered to, paraphrased slightly:

"Post unto others as you would have other post unto you."

I would be happy to help the moderators in any way I can. I enjoyed the OT thread and the chance to answer questions, read others' opinions, and exchange in debate on diverse topics. There will never be total agreement on any topic, but at the same time, there is no justification for name-calling, personal attacks, or abusive profanity (some people find profanity at anytime offensive...I feel there is a time and place for it and its proper use can convey a myriad of emotions....one of my language teachers referred to profanity as "the fruit on the vine of language.")

....“If everybody's thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking.” - Gen. Geo. S. Patton.

My personal rule is to not post anything in a forum that I would not want on the front page of the paper or shown to my late grandmother.

Let me know what I can do to help...I would really like to see the OT returned.



“Speak ill of no man, but speak all the good you know of everybody” - Ben Franklin


Remember, we are all imperfect:
“The world was my oyster but I used the wrong fork - Oscar Wilde”




Greg

[xman]

Yep... good idea. It's been moved to the General forum.

Can I have my 5,000th post put in the General forum too please?

X

[Steelforge]

It doesn't worry me if the 'Off Topic' forum doesn't come back.

Two reasons really.

1) I came here to learn about straight razor shaving and participate in discussion relating to this.

2) I have popped in to the 'Off Topic' forum on occasion, and there have been quite a few threads/posts which I've personally found extremely offensive. Rather than get involved and start an argument, I've chosen to avoid these threads/topics/people as it's not what I came to SRP for.

[FiReSTaRT]

The reason I'd want the o/t forum back is because even though this is a straight razor site, we are also a community. We form friendships. We like to shoot the s*** with friends. That's what the o/t forum was made for.