Off-Topic Forum Suspension Disussion

[gugi]

This thread has already had many many wise opinions, and I was wondering whether it's worth posting. It seems though that Lynn is interested in getting feedback from all members, so I decided I'll post as well. Everything I post has been posted before me, it's just the way I see it for myself.

* This is foremost a forum for straight razors, OT or not. I am confident it will continue to serve this purpose.

* Out of the 3000 members most have come and gone and at any given time the active group is a fairly small group (mods can give numbers, but I'd think no more than 100). I'd like to think this group is the SRP community (and it changes all the time). This is just the reality of it and I don't think anybody expects most people to stick around forever even if some do. I see it more like a school - there are always new students, graduates and teachers&staff.

* To some people OT is important to others it isn't. However even the people that never visit OT are affected by it, because of their interaction with those who like OT. I feel that it fosters a spirit of community. Without OT this place will be quite different. Some people will be here no matter what, some may leave, others will join. Personally I would like it less w/o OT, but no matter what SRP will still serve its main purpose.

* The main problem and one thing everybody agrees on is that we should all act in a 'civil' manner. I would define 'civil' as moderator's definition, whatever it is. And they are always subject to Lynn's interpretation who is the final authority. Even though the site is made by the members, it is owned by Lynn. If he makes bad decisions the thing will fall apart and will be replaced by something else. I don't believe this will ever happen.

* As pointed out, this authority is already established in the T&C we all agreed on. However some people didn't and in future there will be some that will not read them, pay attention to them, or just forget them.

* The main problem is how to make people act in this manner ("I don't do it" doesn't help when somebody else starts trolling around). Obviously a mod has the authority and responsibility to restore the situation
- Restricting OT to noncontroversial topics only is certainly preferred to removing it altogether.
- Removing OT will go a long way to ensure it at the cost of changing the current spirit of the site.
- We cannot force anybody to behave in a civil manner. The best we can do is what was done currently presume people will behave and if they do not act accordingly.
- If OT resurfaces back in it's old form it may be helpful to have a little banner or something at the top of each page, reminding that this is a family friendly place and breaking this spirit would not be tolerated, with a link to detailed explanation of what this means. We have to rely on self censorship - there is no way around it, but that is different to different people, so some short reminder of the basic expectations.
- We may not be able to afford to have OT in the old form - our mods are the ones volunteering and if they decide policing around puts too much on them, then it's clear we cannot have it.

All in all it seems we're replicating a society - there are some laws (not knowing them is not an excuse), there will always be bad guys, and there are cops to deal with them. We can demolish some of the shady neighborhoods, but to me that isn't the preferred solution. Disclaimer: this may be a terrible analogy.

Bottom line - I'd like OT back with may be a warning sign to remind there are laws and consequences for breaking them, but either way I'll be around because there are more important things that keep me.

[WireBeard]

This thread has already had many many wise opinions, and I was wondering whether it's worth posting. It seems though that Lynn is interested in getting feedback from all members, so I decided I'll post as well. Everything I post has been posted before me, it's just the way I see it for myself.

* This is foremost a forum for straight razors, OT or not. I am confident it will continue to serve this purpose.

* Out of the 3000 members most have come and gone and at any given time the active group is a fairly small group (mods can give numbers, but I'd think no more than 100). I'd like to think this group is the SRP community (and it changes all the time). This is just the reality of it and I don't think anybody expects most people to stick around forever even if some do. I see it more like a school - there are always new students, graduates and teachers&staff.

* To some people OT is important to others it isn't. However even the people that never visit OT are affected by it, because of their interaction with those who like OT. I feel that it fosters a spirit of community. Without OT this place will be quite different. Some people will be here no matter what, some may leave, others will join. Personally I would like it less w/o OT, but no matter what SRP will still serve its main purpose.

* The main problem and one thing everybody agrees on is that we should all act in a 'civil' manner. I would define 'civil' as moderator's definition, whatever it is. And they are always subject to Lynn's interpretation who is the final authority. Even though the site is made by the members, it is owned by Lynn. If he makes bad decisions the thing will fall apart and will be replaced by something else. I don't believe this will ever happen.

* As pointed out, this authority is already established in the T&C we all agreed on. However some people didn't and in future there will be some that will not read them, pay attention to them, or just forget them.

* The main problem is how to make people act in this manner ("I don't do it" doesn't help when somebody else starts trolling around). Obviously a mod has the authority and responsibility to restore the situation
- Restricting OT to noncontroversial topics only is certainly preferred to removing it altogether.
- Removing OT will go a long way to ensure it at the cost of changing the current spirit of the site.
- We cannot force anybody to behave in a civil manner. The best we can do is what was done currently presume people will behave and if they do not act accordingly.
- If OT resurfaces back in it's old form it may be helpful to have a little banner or something at the top of each page, reminding that this is a family friendly place and breaking this spirit would not be tolerated, with a link to detailed explanation of what this means. We have to rely on self censorship - there is no way around it, but that is different to different people, so some short reminder of the basic expectations.
- We may not be able to afford to have OT in the old form - our mods are the ones volunteering and if they decide policing around puts too much on them, then it's clear we cannot have it.

All in all it seems we're replicating a society - there are some laws (not knowing them is not an excuse), there will always be bad guys, and there are cops to deal with them. We can demolish some of the shady neighborhoods, but to me that isn't the preferred solution. Disclaimer: this may be a terrible analogy.

Bottom line - I'd like OT back with may be a warning sign to remind there are laws and consequences for breaking them, but either way I'll be around because there are more important things that keep me.

Excellent synopsis, Gugi! I think there are many option which will not involve losing the OT forum. There will always be those who like to stir the pot and there will always be those who are offended - ranging from being offended at a direct personal attack to being offened that there is someone who dares to have an opposing view to yours (we have all met and dealt with people from both ends of the spectrum and in between).

The decision is Lynn's. The moderators do what they can, but as it is an "as time permits" job, there is only so much they can do. In general, I feel thay have been proactive, but as one member stated, the highway should be closed to all, just becasue of individual violations.

1. Repost the T&Cs.
2. Place a banner on the OT forum as to what will not be tolerated and what will happen to those violating policy.
3. Advise the poster as to why a posting was removed...remove the whole post, not just sections.
4. 1st Offense, post is removed and the poster warned., 2nd Offense - short term blocking from posting, 3rd offense - banned from the site. Whether to notify members the the individual was banned for T&C violations is up to Lynn/Moderators. Enforcement must be consistent.
5. Solicit volunteers to assist the moderators. How many mods are there?
6. Perhaps it would help to assign each thread to a moderator and to a back-up moderator? All mods can check all threads, but 1-2 would be the main mods for each thread.

I'm sure we can find a good solution. Again, I'm volunteering to help in anyway.

My apologies to those who went bug-eyed reading my previous post...the T&Cs are not short by any means, but are pretty standard for what you find on sites around the world. It is incidents such as what occurred here that makes them necessary and requires them to be explicit and not implicit in nature.



Greg

[Steelforge]

Joe, would there be an effective way to ban specific members for a period of time from the OT forum rather than punishing everyone?

One of the other forums I visit (http://bbs.scoobynet.com/forum.php) has an 'Infraction' system running. Whereby if someone finds a post offensive (there are rules set out) they can 'Infract' someone by clicking the 'Yellow/Red Card' icon on the post. The poster gets an infraction for that post, and it stays live for x number of days. If that person receives a certain number of infractions within a certain period, they get automatically banned from posting for a few days. During a ban they can still read the forum as normal, just not post.

Here's my infractions, as an example (don't ask).

[JMS]

One of the other forums I visit (http://bbs.scoobynet.com/forum.php) has an 'Infraction' system running. Whereby if someone finds a post offensive (there are rules set out) they can 'Infract' someone by clicking the 'Yellow/Red Card' icon on the post. The poster gets an infraction for that post, and it stays live for x number of days. If that person receives a certain number of infractions within a certain period, they get automatically banned from posting for a few days. During a ban they can still read the forum as normal, just not post.

Here's my infractions, as an example (don't ask).

That sounds like an annoying system!
Men should act like men because that is what they are! When a system like this is installed it only frightens little boys to " act like men" instead of being men, and the real men are likely to go else where!

[JMS]

Clear cut rules sounds appropriate to me!

[gratewhitehuntr]

at least I didn't have apart in it

or did I?

let me know

[JMS]

at least I didn't have apart in it

or did I?

let me know

It was all you GW!

[gratewhitehuntr]

I've debated all day on whether or not to post this but what the hell.
Worst case scenario a mod decides to suppress my information
(Snaggletooth snicker)

...Sure I lose my Building 7 thread which is convenient suppression of information...

X

Just for the record, it went down something like this.

==================================

It’s a pleasant Friday afternoon at the Abrams household.

Telephone rings. Abrams answers

LYNN: Hello?
Voice on Phone: Please hold for the President

Close-up on LYNN silently mouthing “Yeah, right!!”

GWB: Lynn?......Dubya here…..how y’all doin’ today?....haven’ a nice day???

LA: Uh……uh…….yes sir…..Mr. President, sir
.
GWB: Well, good!....Lynn….I’m gonna cut right to the chase, here. That forum thing y’all got….that ‘Shaving’ forum….(damndest thing I EVER did hear of….lot of old guys talkin’ ‘bout SHAVIN’, for pete’s sake!). Well, we got no problem with you guys talkin’ ‘bout SHAVING, but that there OFF-TOPIC forum, ya’know, where ya’ll can just talk about ANYTHING……well, we just can’t be havin’ that, now can we?

LA: [silence]

GWB: Lynn??.....Lynn…..y’all still there??....

LA: uh…..yessir…..

GWB: I said ‘…we just can’t be havin’ that, now can we?”

LA: Uhhh….well, sir, it’s the ultimate expression of Freedom of Speech….it’s a group of disparate individuals exchanging views on a wide range of

GWB: (sputtering in irritation) Now, now, Lynn….don’t y’all be givin’ me that ‘Freedom of Speech’ speech…..hell….you guys are talkin’ ‘bout some stuff that’s just down right DANGEROUS!!!!! Take that ‘Building 7’ thread, started by that pissant little Canadian…..now, we just can’t be HAVIN’ that kind of talk….no, sir….just won’t do AT ALL!! Them guys got it ALL figgered’ out, and the global military/industrial/petro-chemical complex (you know…..the guys I answer to!)….well, I’m here to tell you….they ain’t happy with that thread ONE LEETLE BIT!!!

LA: ….ummmm….you’re kidding, sir?.....

GWB: KIDDING??!!! Y’all hear me LAUGHIN’ now, do ya, son”??......Well, DO YA”????

LA: uhhhh…..nossir!

GWB: Damn straight!....I’m dead serious here…..serious as a damn heart attack…..ya’ll gotsta DO sumthin’ ’bout that there cornspiracy thread, and I mean PRONTO now, ya’hear???

LA…..well, sir, I can’t just shut it down without a reason, sir….

GWB: Awwww, HELL, Lynn…..reasons are EASY….sheeet, I went down to I-raq and kicked some SERIOUS butt an’ I dint have no REASON…..we just gotta make sumtin’ UP…..now, I got a coupla my best men down there on that there forum of yours …

LA: On MY forum?????

GWB: Hell, yes!.....surprised, are ya’, Lynn???....HOMELAND SECURITY…..we had that buried deep in there…..I got guys on ALL the shaving forums…..now, lemme see here [papers rustling in background]…..Straight Razor Place….helluva name you got there, Lynn…..any GAY guys??...yuk (snort) yuk (snort) yuk (snort)….here it is….Straight Razor Place….my guys are JMS and Jonedangerousli ….two a my best men….I’ll just have them start a little ruckus, and you tell your guys to just ‘Shut ‘em down’, and that’ll be that….and that way, we can just keep our little secret….OK?

LA: ummmm….I don’t know, sir…..

GWB: Now, Lynn…..don’t you be fightin’ me on this…..I got your last 15 years worth of Tax Returns a sittin’ on my desk, and I gotta a couple of mad-dog IRS agents justa frothin’ at the mouth…..now, Lynn….I really don’t wanna let the reins loose, now, y’hear?

LA: YESSIR!!!!

GWB: Good!....now, I’ll let my men know what the deal is, and as soon as they get started, well, you just shut that thread down….hell, take down that whole Off-Topic thing, anyway….ain’t NO-ONE should just be able to talk about any ol’ thing that just pops into their leetle head…..damdest thing I EVER heard of!

LA: YESSIR!!!!

GWB: Good…..I’m glad we had this here little chat, Lynn….ya’all have a nice day, now.

[click!]

=============================

[azjoe]

Out of the 3000 members most have come and gone and at any given time the active group is a fairly small group (mods can give numbers, but I'd think no more than 100).

Actually it's much higher than you think... nearly 900 different members have logged one or more times in the past 60-days, nearly 500 in the past week alone.

[Bruno]

Just for the record, it went down something like this.