Thread: Classifieds policy change

Well, "complaints about shave ready" is incredibly ambiguous. We all read the posts by new shavers asking what "shave ready" means. And...to be honest, I'm not entirely sure they can tell what is "shave ready." So if a new straight razor complains about a razor's shave worthiness to the admins, does that mean the seller's ads are automatically pulled? Does the razor in question have to be reviewed by the admins? Do we even get to know if there is a problem? Will letting one razor slip through the cracks cause our ads to be pulled? Does it matter how long ago the razor was sold? How can we tell if it was the hone job and not the razor deteriorating because it is so rusted? Does the seller get an opportunity to correct the transaction with the buyer without having to go through this demeaning process? And it is demeaning btw.

Is there even a trial? Does the seller get to represent himself at the trial? So many questions that need to be answered for this new rule to become crystal clear.

However, if the rule is this: "we will look at it by a case to case basis" then well obviously the rule cannot be crystal clear and...I have nothing more to say. I think that is unfair and a little despotic, and that is the end of that discussion. But, if we are promoting a community with rules and laws, those rules need to be clear so we can understand how to follow them.

"Item not being what it is" makes sense, thats easy to prove or disprove. Either the item matches the description or it doesn't.


edit: Didn't know that feature existed. Good to know. Can we make it so that it appears in the listings themselves?

Every single concern that is brought to the mods' attention is considered. Starting from 'This person has just signed up and all his 13 posts are the same advertisement of a body jewelery' to 'This member is totally stupid and don't understand what I'm saying'.
The mods don't set the standard of what is brought to our attention in any way, and it's pretty much irrelevant since the mods are the ones doing the job and they are committed to look at every single thing. It's very similar to the judicial system - everybody can start the process of a lawsuit, but it may end at different level depending on the strength of any particular case.


By the 'poor reasoning skills' argument one can also infer that this policy change does not imply in any way that buyers should have more trust in any particular ad than before, but that they may have less work to do as some but not all of it may already be done for them by somebody who likely has access to slightly more information than themselves (a lot more things can be shared in a private PM than openly in the forum).


Personally I happen to prefer to have as much choice as possible and make my decisions myself. However I'm perfectly fine with a place where I am a guest to have rules limiting my choice. When I get invited to dinner at my friends my only options are on that table, a dramatic reduction from all the restaurants in town I could be dining at instead.

Remark: when I try to reply or quote on the last post in this thread, I get the "no access" message. When I used the quote button at an earlier post, I encountered no problems. I reckon this is some sort of forum bug.

About the heart of the Classifieds matter, I personally feel every seller should offer a satisfaction guarantee. I have not sold anything yet, except for my honing services, but I expect the other party to be happy with whatever I'd have sold. The buyer obviously wants something, otherwise he wouldn't have made the purchase. If it doesn't live up to his expectations, I don't want his money. So I either refund or take action to make the buyer happy. All parties pay for their own postage required to make and/or revoke the deal.
That's my personal policy for selling anything, regardless where and how the sale was made.
I think in regards to "shaveready" it could help if that policy was standard in the Classifieds. It is not the seller, but the buyer that needs to shave with the razor.

Bart.

I think what needs to be clarified slightly here is that we are not talking splitting hairs here as to what is "shave ready" keep that in mind....

What we are talking here is "Gross Inadequacies" in what is being called shave ready....

It is not part of the Mod job description to determine who can hone and who can't however when we see a gross misrepresentation of a "Shave Ready" razor we are going to look into it....Keep in mind that luckily this is very, very, rare, and we want to keep it that way...

Just because a new guy says "I can't shave with this razor" does not make it inadequate as we have all seen.. But when there are glaring rough patches, and visible nicks left in the edge, guess what that is NOT shave ready and we are going to ask why....

That all makes sense if the seller does not back up his product and offers no guarantee and then just disappears if there are any complaints. But my concern is this:

If one razor slips through the cracks, does that mean the seller is going to get a pm saying "hey, we're pulling all your ads because we've had a complaint" and seeing all his ads pulled? Or will there be a warning, an opportunity to explain, and even more importantly, an opportunity to correct the problem?

I know I am only human and I make mistakes all the time, it seems unfair to punish someone for a mistake that they are more than willing to correct. I would rather see the seller correct the sale and the mods stay out of a private contract between two peole, because thats what these are, unless you want SRP to act as a go between.

That said, if the seller has a history of bad sales and never corrects his mistakes and just basically says "sorry, too bad for you" then clearly action must be taken to protect the integrity of the boards.

However, I don't see why the mods need to get involved if the seller is a stand up member of the community and stands behind his sales.



If what you guys are bent on eliminating is glaring defects, then a seller who is a stand up member of the community would be incredibly embarrassed to realize that he sent something so aweful to someone. That person would then do all he could to correct the problem. No mod intervention would be needed in this case. However, if the person was not an upstanding citizen with no respect for his reputation, then yes, obviously action needs to be taken.

I guess I feel you guys don't trust us to stand behind our products? If its only glaring defects your interested in then... clearly we will stand behind our sales and fix the problem. If something that bad got out, it must have been a slip up unless many other people are complaining about it. And I can pretty much guarantee we'd hear about it on the forums.

This policy makes perfect sense regarding people with 13 posts and no history. But not to sellers who stand behind their products

All this postage for something I considered to be in play already.

If youse guys think there is something amiss with a seller or sale.
By ALL means pull it.

"Shave ready" can be a VERY ambiguous term. Let the buyer/seller work things out.
I don't believe there should be judging by a jury...
I think the term SHAVE READY should mean...just that...You can shave with it..Varying deegrees perhaps....By then the buyer has read much info here and takes a stab at stropping...
The first razor I stropped I took the edge off...MY BAD!
People have to accept life's limitations without a watchdog agency always the fall guy...
Thank you
Tom

Originally Posted by gugi

The moderators are a lot more tactful and sensible than most members, even if it may not be apparent.

and yes technically this is a Dictatorship,

I like that Ivan, Is there some test or something that you guys take, I mean, My IQ is 129, I'm not even going get into the "Tact" part....

Originally Posted by zib

I like that Ivan, Is there some test or something that you guys take

Actually it's a Pavlovian training process we all go through. For every 'incident' Doc takes away the ban button for a week. You can't imagine the pain, the shame and the anguish living among the other mods without a ban button....

Originally Posted by gugi

Actually it's a Pavlovian training process we all go through. For every 'incident' Doc takes away the ban button for a week. You can't imagine the pain, the shame and the anguish living among the other mods without a ban button....

So the other mods can see the "ban button" ability as either lit up and ready to fire, or not lit up and the mod is being punished?

That statement in itself is tactless my friend, and it's a slam to all other Gentleman members, it in itself is "Ungentlemanlly, IMHO....With all do respect, I think you should change your statement.