Thread: Paper testing razors

Originally Posted by Utopian

No pass required. Unlike the accusations of some, this place is not a union of yes-men. Civil disagreement makes for more more informative discussions in my opinion.

,,,,,,, all it does is, pi$$ people off before they go to bed,,,,

Originally Posted by bigeasy1

If you had continued the cutting, you may very well have created the bur so dreaded here, or may have gotten far enough to realize after 10-12 cuts, the blade did not cut as slickly, with a little more drag, and possibly a little more noise, as the paper tore more and cut less. Continued cutting from that point would have eventually created a few chips, and it may have become more difficult to drag the razor through the paper.

I'm confused.

On the rare occasion when I do a thumbnail test, I hardly ever need to do more than one pass to assess the edge. Sometimes I might repeat it once if I was not sure about what I sensed the first time.

Now, since the paper test is done to assess the edge as well, why would you repeat it so many times? What do you learn from the twelfth cut that you could not learn from the first?

Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm confused.

On the rare occasion when I do a thumbnail test, I hardly ever need to do more than one pass to assess the edge. Sometimes I might repeat it once if I was not sure about what I sensed the first time.

Now, since the paper test is done to assess the edge as well, why would you repeat it so many times? What do you learn from the twelfth cut that you could not learn from the first?

I would not normally make twelve cuts. One is usually sufficient. This was only a suggestion of learning more from attempting the test before resetting a bevel. Stating with a good edge, it will slowly deteriorate, with enough of cutting anything. Notice the changes while it deteriorates. This will be similar to the differences you can detect while using the test, one at a time, from the beginning. Except the changes will be from rougher to smoother, instead of backwards from that. Then go on to setting the bevel as usual, no real harm done. Just a few minutes used to acquaint yourself to how the paper cutting may help, and its rate of damage to an edge. Naturally with chips, much faster damage to the edge will occur. The norm would be starting from the bevel set with no chips, and continuing that way. At the first indication of any chip, past bevel setting, I get rid of the chip before going any farther. With use and experience, I find the paper cutting will find a chip much earlier than any thing else short of a microscope.

Got it. Thanks.
Since I have a couple of great microscopes, I doubt I will do much with this but I will try it a bit just to better understand it.

Let me try again:
An earlier post from bluesman7, who was getting ready to reset the bevel and hone a razor, ended with

"Before dulling the razor for re honing I did slice a little paper with the razor in just off of shave ready condition.
That was pretty impressive."

I took "pretty impressive" as meaning he got a smooth slick cut. Certainly not the same as he will get after the bevel is set. I realized that with the intention of setting the bevel anyway, he could have learned more by pushing the envelope. He could have made more cuts, to see if he could detect from the paper, the damage that was accumulating from continued cuts. This would just have been an experiment and possibly learning thing. Since he was about to reset the bevel anyone, no harm done by a few very small chips. The experiment would have shown that the paper cutting does cause damage, but also that the changes can re realized is it accumulates. I normal use, rarely would more than one of two cuts would be used. But let us say that when you thought you were done with bevel set, you made a paper cut that gave a small tick sound from one spot, sounding different than the rest of the edge. That is probably a tiny chip, and you will save time to get rid of it now rather than later. A few more passes on the bevel set stone, and another test.
Learn to get the most from your senses when using paper. If you were watching closely as you made the afore mentioned cut, you would have a very good idea where the chip was. If there was no chip, but a small frown, the razor may have skipped over the frown part without cutting, but may not have changed feel or noise level. If you were watching closely, you would see where it skipped over, and would realize the stone was noting getting to the edge from both sides at that point. Not only can it find points, it may find that everything is good until getting to a section of the edge, Too much pressure toward one end could be causing some chipping from the pressure. ??????? Lots of possibilities.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

,,,,,,, all it does is, pi$$ people off before they go to bed,,,,

Or keep them up much later than they would have intended.
In which case, it may turn out nothing they write makes any sense

Originally Posted by bigeasy1

Too much pressure toward one end could be causing some chipping from the pressure. ??????? Lots of possibilities.

I don't know about lots of possibilities but between honing with diamond plates & paper cutting, I think chips will be more of a reality for you than for me.
You'll notice not a single experienced razor honer on this forum agrees with your methods.
You can call it conspiracy theory if you wish but there is a lot of accumulated knowledge here on razors alone not just knives.
Sometimes it's easier to ride the horse where its nose is pointed.
Good luck with your experimenting.

Originally Posted by bigeasy1

Let me try again:
An earlier post from bluesman7, who was getting ready to reset the bevel and hone a razor, ended with

"Before dulling the razor for re honing I did slice a little paper with the razor in just off of shave ready condition.
That was pretty impressive."

I took "pretty impressive" as meaning he got a smooth slick cut. Certainly not the same as he will get after the bevel is set. I realized that with the intention of setting the bevel anyway, he could have learned more by pushing the envelope. He could have made more cuts, to see if he could detect from the paper, the damage that was accumulating from continued cuts.

I totally get what you are suggesting here and in retrospect I should have done just that.

I have a honing partner and we are often dulling edges re honing and mailing the razors to each other for assessment, so I'll have more chances to do this. I will be able to correlate the damage I sense with the cutting with what I see with my microscope. I don't expect to ever really use this test, but I don't mind learning more about it, and since I'll be dulling the edges anyway I may as well gain the experience. I will be doing my best to not damage the edge, just the way you would use it on the way towards shave ready.

I don't think you need to add any warnings to your signature, this thread is full of them, and a dull razor is not really the end of the world. Presumably anyone using this test would already have a dull razor.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

I totally get what you are suggesting here and in retrospect I should have done just that.

I have a honing partner and we are often dulling edges re honing and mailing the razors to each other for assessment, so I'll have more chances to do this. I will be able to correlate the damage I sense with the cutting with what I see with my microscope. I don't expect to ever really use this test, but I don't mind learning more about it, and since I'll be dulling the edges anyway I may as well gain the experience. I will be doing my best to not damage the edge, just the way you would use it on the way towards shave ready.

I don't think you need to add any warnings to your signature, this thread is full of them, and a dull razor is not really the end of the world. Presumably anyone using this test would already have a dull razor.

I think the powers to be have spoken, and the thread is likely ending soon anyway. I don't know what you and blistersteel use for testing, and as mentioned several times before this point, many eventually use very little if any testing. It is a very subjective thing, and when everything is going well, little will be learned other than improvement from last test, and possibly nothing unexpected is going on. For anyone interested, it has all of the possible abilities mentioned previously. Up to each of us what we decide to use or work at in the pursuit for consistently finer shaves. Thanks for your patience and sticking around this long. I will hang around a bit to see if anyone has serious questions.
Cheers,

Originally Posted by bigeasy1

I think the powers to be have spoken, and the thread is likely ending soon anyway. I don't know what you and blistersteel use for testing, and as mentioned several times before this point, many eventually use very little if any testing. It is a very subjective thing, and when everything is going well, little will be learned other than improvement from last test, and possibly nothing unexpected is going on. For anyone interested, it has all of the possible abilities mentioned previously. Up to each of us what we decide to use or work at in the pursuit for consistently finer shaves. Thanks for your patience and sticking around this long. I will hang around a bit to see if anyone has serious questions.
Cheers,

Though I have not seen a benefit from your procedure with paper & have had a little humor at it's existence,,,I don't see why it would be closed up to this point. You have hinted at this outcome, a few times before in this thread. You have detailed/presented your procedure without making it a requirement, this IMO has been the key to this thread's existence. I have no say so in a threads success, so take these words as strictly my opinion.

Procedures like yours will always run the gauntlet here. SRP is a place, if not the place, where beginners come to learn how to maintain their razors. Ideas are closely examined due to the success/fail ratio of beginners trying to hone. Frankly put, if your procedure is going to make the job of beginners learning to hone more difficult & the procedure is void of substantiated facts; then the thread is probably doomed.


It's not a personal thing,,, "my procedure is better than yours",,,,, it's fact over fiction.