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Thread: My razor is too sharp???? I like a duller edge??

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gssixgun My razor is too sharp???? I... 10-02-2009, 06:04 PM
gugi Oh, it's really simple Glen,... 10-02-2009, 06:20 PM
gssixgun TY Gugi my friend for the... 10-02-2009, 06:21 PM
JimmyHAD Glen, IME I can get a sharp... 10-02-2009, 06:29 PM
gssixgun I think there is confusion... 10-02-2009, 06:34 PM
mparker762 Not sure why the sarcasm. ... 10-02-2009, 07:14 PM
gssixgun Ok there is where ya lost... 10-02-2009, 07:36 PM
hi_bud_gl I think Glen confusion is not... 10-02-2009, 07:44 PM
keenedge I shaved for two years with... 10-02-2009, 07:59 PM
gssixgun I'm quite sure that they are... 10-02-2009, 08:08 PM
mparker762 I'm not saying that at all. ... 10-02-2009, 08:20 PM
Bart I respectfully disagree with... 10-02-2009, 08:48 PM
mparker762 I hate arguments by... 10-02-2009, 09:01 PM
Bart A fair explanation I don't... 10-02-2009, 10:17 PM
spazola In my little mind, the edge... 10-02-2009, 10:18 PM
mparker762 Or take that chosera 5k edge... 10-02-2009, 10:46 PM
Bart I have the document open... 10-02-2009, 11:14 PM
hi_bud_gl Ok what we do? don't we go... 10-02-2009, 11:16 PM
mparker762 On page 27 you're in a tormek... 10-02-2009, 11:17 PM
mparker762 Another interesting snippet... 10-02-2009, 11:20 PM
gssixgun Some Conclusions 10-02-2009, 11:42 PM
hi_bud_gl Glen i didn't get this one?... 10-03-2009, 02:32 PM
gssixgun No disrespect at all intended... 10-03-2009, 02:40 PM
kevint whoa. ten pages to discuss... 10-03-2009, 02:55 PM
Seraphim Here's a pic I took of a... 10-04-2009, 12:39 AM
randydance062449 Sorry I am late to this... 10-04-2009, 03:55 AM
sicboater :OT I am a big proponent... 10-03-2009, 03:00 PM
JimmyHAD It was and is an interesting... 10-03-2009, 03:02 PM
hardheart you may find this... 10-03-2009, 03:20 PM
mparker762 Interesting thread. Notice... 10-03-2009, 04:16 PM
gssixgun That was a pretty cool post... 10-03-2009, 04:26 PM
mparker762 Could well be useful. One... 10-03-2009, 04:29 PM
hardheart I dunno, I think Cliff was... 10-03-2009, 04:34 PM
hi_bud_gl You see this man says what he... 10-02-2009, 11:47 PM
mparker762 Except that when he went from... 10-02-2009, 11:54 PM
Bart I don't care. I own such a... 10-02-2009, 11:35 PM
mparker762 I think the key difference is... 10-02-2009, 11:48 PM
Lynn I really appreciate the... 10-03-2009, 12:37 AM
hardheart what about blade 3-63, 0.26... 10-03-2009, 12:55 AM
Basset I am not sure whether... 10-03-2009, 01:26 AM
hardheart Dulling and smoothing would... 10-03-2009, 02:15 AM
Pyment Given my current method and... 10-03-2009, 02:44 AM
Lynn Shave off the 4K and you will... 10-03-2009, 02:45 AM
JimmyHAD The new avatar looks good... 10-03-2009, 02:50 AM
mparker762 That was on the tormek... 10-03-2009, 02:53 AM
hardheart I think this is readily... 10-03-2009, 03:05 AM
hardheart Yeah, I've heard of safety... 10-03-2009, 03:21 AM
mparker762 We definitely have that... 10-03-2009, 03:29 AM
mparker762 One thing that really strikes... 10-03-2009, 03:21 AM
hardheart Seems to be too many... 10-03-2009, 03:36 AM
LarryAndro Without trying to be cute, I... 10-03-2009, 04:00 AM
mparker762 I don't think we're... 10-03-2009, 04:36 AM
Seraphim I wouldn't say that I like a... 10-03-2009, 12:03 PM
LarryAndro I read your post several... 10-04-2009, 03:57 AM
avatar1999 Hmm, I'm wondering what their... 10-03-2009, 03:32 AM
mainaman The problem with dull knives,... 10-03-2009, 01:11 PM
riooso What a great thread! I have... 10-04-2009, 04:56 AM
randydance062449 I agree with this. The... 10-04-2009, 05:15 AM
LarryAndro Several times I tried... 10-04-2009, 05:45 AM
Ben325e The problem with this is that... 10-04-2009, 06:23 AM
hardheart but if you are going by... 10-04-2009, 09:49 AM
Seraphim Here is an edge I finished... 10-04-2009, 11:58 AM
mparker762 That's pretty smooth if... 10-04-2009, 01:31 PM
mparker762 For comparison, here's a shot... 10-04-2009, 01:37 PM
Seraphim Honing at 48 degrees? ... 10-04-2009, 06:08 PM
hardheart Yeah, the depth of the... 10-04-2009, 06:19 PM
mparker762 Yes, he mentions that in his... 10-04-2009, 06:31 PM
LarryAndro Can I vote this the greatest... 10-04-2009, 07:01 PM
hoglahoo no, you cannot. no bribe is... 10-05-2009, 02:44 AM
JimmyHAD How about a higher... 10-05-2009, 02:46 AM
Bart Cutting - or better: chopping... 10-04-2009, 07:09 PM
mparker762 (It was intended to be... 10-04-2009, 10:31 PM
Bart After rereading several... 10-04-2009, 11:31 PM
mparker762 I pretty much agree with... 10-05-2009, 01:25 AM
JimmyHAD Indeed they do debate exactly... 10-05-2009, 02:15 AM
hardheart Yes, but it is the refinement... 10-04-2009, 07:31 PM
Kingfish If that angle turns out to be... 10-04-2009, 08:25 PM
cotdt If the razor is too sharp and... 10-04-2009, 08:32 PM
mparker762 Are you sure you measured the... 10-04-2009, 09:26 PM
cotdt Yes this is exactly how I... 10-05-2009, 02:29 AM
LarryAndro Good point about crystal... 10-04-2009, 03:16 PM
hardheart Ultimately, magnification is... 10-04-2009, 03:37 PM
Lynn What type of diamond... 10-04-2009, 03:13 PM
randydance062449 Hey Lynn, I used a diamond... 10-05-2009, 02:56 AM
Seraphim There is no way to hijack... 10-05-2009, 01:44 PM
hoglahoo Man, that would frighten me. ... 10-05-2009, 01:46 PM
LarryAndro I've thought about this... 10-05-2009, 02:04 PM
gssixgun I think the difference is... 10-02-2009, 09:03 PM
ENUF2 I don't like dull. Give me... 10-02-2009, 08:25 PM
mparker762 There's another disadvantage... 10-02-2009, 08:40 PM
gssixgun And I thought I was done with... 10-02-2009, 08:49 PM
mparker762 Do you not get sharp stubble... 10-02-2009, 09:16 PM
quicknicker My razor is too sharp???? 10-04-2009, 01:08 PM
  1. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    Honing at 48 degrees?

    That' s a cakewalk compared to what staright users must contend with (as you well know).

    Yes, he mentions that in his paper.

    pg 14
    The effects of changing the 2β edge angle are illustrated by comparing the blade of Fig. 17 which had 2β = 70o to Fig. 16 where 2β = 50o. ... The larger angle produced noticeably more breakout along the edge, an effect which was confirmed to increase as the angle was increased over the 3 values studied, 50, 60 and 70o.
    and pg 21
    ...however, sharpening a blade with the 2β edge angle of the razor blades, 17o, is more difficult than a blade with the 2β edge angle of 40o.
    Which brings up an interesting question: why is the standard honing angle for straight razors is 17 degrees and not 20 or 30 or 40 like knives? FWIW both the Gillette blades he tested and the straight razor he tested had 17 degree honing angles.

    The answer for straight razors may simply be the weight of such a heavy spine, or maybe the necessity for shaving with a lower angle and the wide spine would get in the way. But I'm not sure that either explanation is sufficient. Framebacks solve the weight issue (and given the popularity of the big 8/8 wedges clearly weight wasn't *that* much of a problem), and a 40 degree honing angle is only 20 degrees either side which doesn't seem unworkable given that 25-30 degrees is a common angle for shaving. So why 17 degrees? We've seen that going much lower than that makes for an edge that is simply too weak to hold up, so that explains why it isn't lower, but why isn't the standard angle much higher? And Gillette certainly didn't have to worry about weight or spine thickness, yet they went with the same angle. The Feather has a final bevel angle of 25 degrees, yet their primary bevel is I believe right around 17 degrees (I can't find Zowada's post where he gives the angles for the various bevels on the Feather, so if somebody runs across that post please feel free to correct me).

    Quote Originally Posted by hardheart View Post
    Yeah, the depth of the sawtooth effect the abrasive will have on the edge is greatly increased as the angle is lowered, plus worrying about microchipping. Finish on the bevel sides should be pretty consistent, I would expect.
    Neither Verhoeven's photos nor the photos from other guy a few months ago that posted SEM photos of his own edges showed any evidence of sawteeth at 3000x. Verhoeven's photos show sawteeth from honing at coarser grits, but not once you get up to the sorts of abrasives that we use - once the depth of the scratch marks is lower than the edge width then they may as well be farm furrows running off the cliffs of Dover.
    Last edited by mparker762; 10-04-2009 at 06:35 PM.

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