Thread: Is it possible for us as men to have a discussion on God

Originally Posted by mhailey

GW said it best, and I paraphrase: I would rather believe in the infinitesimal possibility that we just happened to come into existence, than to answer to a higher power.

Why...? Got something bad on your conscience?

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Does L. Ron Hubbard count as a supreme being??

James.

The funniest thing is that he didn't intend to publish that when he wrote it. He came up with the concept at a cocktail party and just kind of went with the idea for his own religion. Then others became interested in it, he published (I still think as a commentary more than as a doctrinal work). Viola new religion, even includes a few zealous kooks for free.

I've been touched...

Two and a half days and 140 posts later show me that some of my straight razor brethren were really hungry for some real talk on this subject!!

Can I get a HALLELUJAH?




I SAID....CAN I GET A HALLELUJAH MY BROTHERS!!

To quote my old friend Lewis Grizzard:

"Tell it all, brother. Tell it all."

Originally Posted by mhailey

This thread has reinforced my opinion that we are living in a time where the religion of the masses is the exaltation of the individual, and not submission to a supreme being. Whether you want to believe it or not, the religion espoused by bpatton, X, GW, and others is that anything is permissible for the individual, because there are no ultimate consequences for any actions.

It seems that morality is now sacrificed on the alter of human desire.

GW said it best, and I paraphrase: I would rather believe in the infinitesimal possibility that we just happened to come into existence, than to answer to a higher power.

WOW, sory, but did you read what I posted. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on morality or ethics. Thats just not true. There are many, many, many, many theories of ethics that rely on things other than religion. There are also many that rely on religion. I believe I pointed out what my personal ethics are derived from...the golden rule--treat others as you would be treated.

And while, yes, the golden rule is in the bible. There are places it can be found way before the notion of christianity was found. It also has nothing to do with religion, other than it has been espoused by religions, it just makes sense.

If you claim religion has a monopoly on morality, I would refer you to anything written by Singer. His position is in many ways morally superior to the traditional christian moral frame work. His position stems from one basic premise: everything alive has a right to life. He takes this right down to algae. This is where much of the vegan philosophy comes from. There are so many ethical theories that every college has at least one ethical expert, in areas such as bioethics, environmental ethics, buisness ethics, and the list goes on.

I haven't really been trying to convert people because everyone has a right to their beliefs, but I have been trying to point out that this discussion is a useless discussion because nothing further can be gained from it. You can only come to the point where nothing is sure. Thats the point you will be at eventually. You either say I'm going to believe in god, or I'm not. The practical consequence of agnosticism (if god exists) is the same as atheism---hell. Everyone has to make the choice.

I have made the choice of atheism because it allows me to stand with the theories that we have that are the most effective in predicting how things will occur in the world. Saying god did it gives you no predictive power. Saying it happens by XY and Z, allowes you to predict the reactions between elements and such. Yes you can say god made it this way, and that allows you to do the same thing. It's just a choice you need to make, but I assure you that the things that have been posited based on christianity, such as the soul, have all but been prooven wrong (some more research to do, but it's pretty clear).

And you can constantly redefine your religion around these problems, but how do you establish morality, the reasons for morality, and the way people should act in your religion if you constantly redefine it? It will change every week. Fore example, there is nothing in the bible that says anything about evolution...god just picked up some dirt and Poof! Adam. That is a clear contradiction with the best scientific theory available to us today, but many people want to clearly contradict their holy book to use it. Then the response becomes the bible is just stories to live by, not historicle fact. Thats great, there are some very good stories that teach us much about how to act in the world. However, just putting it out there--there is no way to know what you should do if you read the bible, it can justify anything you want it to; all you have to do is find the right passage. Then comes the debate about which of two holy passages is more holy, and the debate continues for ever. If you want evidence for this look at the current homosexuality debate, or the slavery debate that went on in the US.

Make your choice. I don't care either way, I've made mine. Just pointing out that YOU CANNOT KNOW, YOU HAVE TO GUESS. Also, EITHER WAY THE WORLD KEEPS SPINNING AND SOCIETY WILL NOT COLLAPSE.

Originally Posted by Jonedangerousli

I've been touched...

GOTTA LOVE IT...was my buddies back ground for a while.

Jsut so you know...the actual painting doesn't have the flying spaghetti monster. hahaha

Originally Posted by bpatton

GOTTA LOVE IT...was my buddies back ground for a while.

Jsut so you know...the actual painting doesn't have the flying spaghetti monster. hahaha

You mean the ancient greeks did NOT believe if the flying spaghetti monster?
Shock horror

uh....yeah, and niether did the guy who painted the sistine chapel....i think that was Michaelangelo (SP*).

Originally Posted by bpatton

uh....yeah, and niether did the guy who painted the sistine chapel....i think that was Michaelangelo (SP*).

Ok my knowledge of classic history is a bit dodgy. I flunked virtually every single history exam in high school because I thought it was pointless to know dates and names by heart.

I thought that image was painted by the greeks, but now that I think about it, that might not have made sense on so many levels...

It would be great though... Imagine for a second that somebody would paint the FSM on the ceiling of the sixstine chapel.