The Ukraine Situation

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Defeatist or realist?

You talk in generalities not specifics. The bully on the school bus doesn't have a nuclear bomb in his pocket.

We've gone pretty far with sanctions and with a country like Russia where the population is being fed a bunch of propaganda you reach a point where sanctions just bring the population together to view the West as the evil ones. Some think that way already. A view is forming where Western Corporations were damaging the "Heart and Soul" of Russia. Good riddens to them. Unless they overthrow him Putin isn't going anywhere and he doesn't care about his soldiers or population.

If nuclear weapons didn't exist the world could march in and throw Russia out but that ain't gonna happen. The nuclear card changes everything. We are in uncharted territory here which is why everyone is walking on eggshells here.

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They have the same reality that we do. Whoever wants to push the envelope realizes that is the potential. They know what they're dealing with. And if you arent being attacked then who would authorize that? So the Ukraine should just roll over because Russia has nukes? This thing will end soon. And they need to leave a way out for Putin. Somebody a lot smarter than you or me will have to figure that out.

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Originally Posted by Bill31521

They have the same reality that we do. Whoever wants to push the envelope realizes that is the potential. They know what they're dealing with. And if you arent being attacked then who would authorize that? So the Ukraine should just roll over because Russia has nukes? This thing will end soon. And they need to leave a way out for Putin. Somebody a lot smarter than you or me will have to figure that out.

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That right there could be the real issue, Putin looks to be the smartest one on the school bus, for sure the biggest bully, I just have little faith in the Western Leaders we have at the moment...

Yes, adding the nukes into the equation changes everything. Certainly, us flapping our jaws about the situation is not going to solve it. It just underlines the dilemma world leaders are facing which is their's to solve one way or another. The best that can be hoped for is that someone can come up with a workable solution amenable to both sides without risking a nuclear war in the process. In the meantime stock up on antacids gents.

Bob

Historically speaking countries ruled by despots and dictators require folks who are ruthless, bolder and in many cases bigger than life. They have to be to claw their way to the top. They are more willing to take chances because they don't have to worry about consequences as long as they "bring home the bacon".

Democracies and related Government types rely on elections and people who are more politically savvy. These are traits and requirements that usually don't make someone a despot. They may seem weaker and in many ways they are.

Let's hope the economic sanctions work. Russia has no manufacturing industry of any significance. It relies heavily on importing advanced technological equipment. It takes a while to start domestic production.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

So once again we come to the cost benefit equation.

The question to ask yourself is how good a gambler are you? The stakes may be too high depending on the cost and benefit. If you loose you loose everything.

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I completely agree with you but, I think eventually we're going to have to call his bluff.

He has already said that he sees the sanctions against Russia an act of war, if he threatens us all with a nuke unless we remove them are we just going to comply and let him off with everything. I would be surprised and what if he used biological or chemical weapons against the people of Ukraine, will we sit and complain that he's being awful or do something regardless of his threats.

I think he's all mouth and he's going to push his luck by using threats as long as he can but sooner or later the west is going to take him behind the bike shed.

Do you think that the SAS aren't already in Ukraine?

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Originally Posted by STF

I completely agree with you but, I think eventually we're going to have to call his bluff.

He has already said that he sees the sanctions against Russia an act of war, if he threatens us all with a nuke unless we remove them are we just going to comply and let him off with everything. I would be surprised and what if he used biological or chemical weapons against the people of Ukraine, will we sit and complain that he's being awful or do something regardless of his threats.

I think he's all mouth and he's going to push his luck by using threats as long as he can but sooner or later the west is going to take him behind the bike shed.

Do you think that the SAS aren't already in Ukraine?

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Of course they are. Political enemies have been targeted for elimination. Plans are underway for "non standard" means or warfare. The worst is yet to come.

Thought this was a good article.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp

Anyone want to strap on their big boy pants and gamble the whole ball of wax?

Bob

Like they say "Talk is cheap".

There's always the outside chance that if the west does get into it with Russia, Putin won't press the button.

Maybe he could have a WWIII without firing nukes.

I was just thinking, Nukes have only ever been used in anger once, twice actually and it wasn't the Russians that did it.