The Ukraine Situation

A lot of very wealthy folks around the world are buying up private islands and tracts of land in New Zealand and the Caribbean and the South Pacific and building fortresses mostly underground with provisions of all kinds to last many years. There are also outfits building underground luxury bunkers. So some folks think they can weather anything.

It's more likely a nuke is gonna come from a small player like N Korea where he takes out a few cities on the West Coast. I mean what are you gonna do to destroy N Korea. Pretty much the whole country is backwards with no real infrastructure. There ain't much to destroy.

Yes, I am of the mindset too that it looks like a choice between getting directly involved in Ukraine now or doing it later in some other place. I doubt that Putin will stop at Ukraine. Just make sure that you fully understand where it could all quite easily lead to if things escalate beyond control.

Bob

The United Kingdom and the US spent 20 years trying to control and fight a bunch of guys with turbans in Afghanistan, who didn't have an Airforce or a Navy no heavy artillery and no major weapons to speak of, just hearts minds and a will, what chance do you think Nato have if they launch a ground war against Russia, I'm no betting man, but I know who my money will be going on, and it's not Nato.

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

The United Kingdom and the US spent 20 years trying to control and fight a bunch of guys with turbans in Afghanistan, who didn't have an Airforce or a Navy no heavy artillery and no major weapons to speak of, just hearts minds and a will, what chance do you think Nato have if they launch a ground war against Russia, I'm no betting man, but I know who my money will be going on, and it's not Nato.

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All that was after the Russians were handed their ass by the very same people.

My own thinking is different. If NATO goes to the defence of Ukraine with a no fly zone and/or boots on the ground there, that should be no reason to invade Russia itself but just push them out of Ukraine. Only if Russia were to attack a NATO country in retaliation would you see a general conflict with Russia. Once that happens you will see a conventional war, at least at first, that may or may not escalate to include the use of nukes. The outcome, if that occurs, I would not care to place a bet on. Especial so if it got to the point of using nukes in which case all sides could all wind up being losers.

Bob

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

The United Kingdom and the US spent 20 years trying to control and fight a bunch of guys with turbans in Afghanistan, who didn't have an Airforce or a Navy no heavy artillery and no major weapons to speak of, just hearts minds and a will, what chance do you think Nato have if they launch a ground war against Russia, I'm no betting man, but I know who my money will be going on, and it's not Nato.

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Russia does have a big army and lots of weapons of that there's no doubt but, they have shown how ineffective their army is in Ukraine.

I think that as long as we are talking conventional warfare, Russia would easily lose against NATO.

I doubt if any one country could withstand the might of all the NATO countries combined.

Incidentally, there has been lots of counties that tried to conquer Afghanistan throughout history, including the British(remember the Khyber Pass). No one has ever succeeded in Afghanistan, not only are they fierce fighters but have mountains that make it almost impossible to find them.

Ken Follet wrote a good book about the Afghan fighters holed up in the mountains called "Lay Down with Lions"

Nato would win imo as long as they are willing to do what they have to do. Some of these people are lame. A half hearted effort is not in anyone's interest. To keep the peace everyone needs to be armed to the teeth and ready for war. There should be no ambiguity as to what will happen.

The west wouldn't have the stomach for any large scale troop casualties, troops on the ground wouldn't be an option in my opinion, and I have never ever seen a war won with just bombing people, look at Vietnam, they dropped double the amount bombs in Vietnam than in the entire World War two and we know how that ended, sorry folks I don't see Nato being the answer.

I have been staying out of this simply because its basically a political thread.

I am however going to state a military observation. "IF" war were a game of chess, Putin is only playing with his ponds so far if you will...troops, tanks, artillery, and the such. Very few precision guided ($) weapons.

Remember our "shock and awe" bombings? That was a show of power.

Putin has not shown his power and is holding back...or is he? That is the game of chess.

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

The United Kingdom and the US spent 20 years trying to control and fight a bunch of guys with turbans in Afghanistan, who didn't have an Airforce or a Navy no heavy artillery and no major weapons to speak of, just hearts minds and a will, what chance do you think Nato have if they launch a ground war against Russia, I'm no betting man, but I know who my money will be going on, and it's not Nato.

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Things are a bit different this time. I don't think anyone ever said that the NATO would ever invade Russia.

This time the Russians are playing the role of the "US and UK" while the Ukrainians are the "guys with the turbans". The US is supporting the "guys with the turbans" with weapons to fight off the invader.
By the way hearts and minds don't win wars. You need weapons. The same way third party players were suppling the Afghans, the west is and going to be sending weapons to the Ukrainians to keep fighting.

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Originally Posted by ScottGoodman

I have been staying out of this simply because its basically a political thread.

I am however going to state a military observation. "IF" war were a game of chess, Putin is only playing with his ponds so far if you will...troops, tanks, artillery, and the such. Very few precision guided ($) weapons.

Remember our "shock and awe" bombings? That was a show of power.

Putin has not shown his power and is holding back...or is he? That is the game of chess.

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I think the Russians have been exposed. Their military isn't as good and effective as everybody thought they were. I guess the years of corruption and mismanagement is showing.