The Ukraine Situation

Yes Germany was defeated without nukes but it was them against the whole world. To quote another poster do you think the thousands who died in Dresden in the firestorm cared whether it was a nuke or not. Dead is dead.

It was mostly us against Japan and the Japanese were fanatical. Sure we could have tried a blockade and how many would have starved to death? We could have invaded and it would have been town to town and house to house fighting. They would never have given up. On Okinawa they were jumping off cliffs to avoid our troops. Maybe we could have done nothing and just said, hey they are whipped and aren't a threat to anyone as they secretly armed and did who knows what like Germany did after WW l.

Like they say, war is hell plain and simple and when you start a world war and try to invade and kill the population in other countries just for the hell of it you get what you deserve whatever that may be, nukes, carpet bombs, napalm whatever.

Sorry but that's how I view it but then again my parents lost a load of relatives in Europe during this time.

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Originally Posted by Bill31521

Is anyone upset about the outcome of WW2?

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I doubt many on our side were upset about the outcome of WWII. Neither side came out of it looking like Mother Teresa and you could say we were all losers with the millions of dead left in it wake plus a huge refugee crisis and more.

You could also make a case for there being no civilians in wartime as most civilians get involved in support of the war effort in one way or another.

Get upset by civilian casualties but do not be surprised by them. They are an integral part of war now more the ever before.

Bob

You can't judge WW2 by today's standards of warfare, in fact most of the rules we have now were set in motion after learning from the mistakes that all sides made then..

We also have to accept "The Fog of War"

The US using some of the most sophisticated ISR tech in existence just blew up a father and his kids in the Afghanistan exit debacle..
They thought he was packing his car with bombs and gas, when it was just water..

Do you know how many of our guys are killed by "friendly fire" in all campaigns?

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

You can't judge WW2 by today's standards of warfare, in fact most of the rules we have now were set in motion after learning from the mistakes that all sides made then..

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Even prior to WWII the bombing of civilians was controversial under international law. The 1937 bombing of Guernica in the Spanish Civil War by the German Condor Legion is an example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica

Bob

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Japan -

After the Battle for Okinawa, it was estimated that taking the home Islands would have resulted in the loss of 1 Million Japanese (Conservatively) and 100,000 allied lives

This is a pretty good article with much higher numbers that were deduced after the war, yes we did actually have plans to invade...

There are many such articles with good info about why we dropped the two bombs..

Also I had input from my parents about post WW2 Japan since pops was stationed there in 1953, in fact my Sister was born in Nagoya

https://ladailypost.com/what-if-the-...on-nov-1-1945/

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I understand and get your point, I also intend absolutely no disrespect to your family at all but I can't help but notice that, all the history, the books and the justifications are all from an American point of view.

Putin is justifying the invasion of Ukraine as de nazifying the country and acting on the request of the Ukrainian people. If he wins the Russian history books will show this as a crusade to save the people of Ukraine and if he uses Chemical, biological or nuclear weapons (NBC) he will justify that as speeding the end of the war and saving thousands of lives.

You know what they say about history being written by the winners.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

What's your definition of a world war?

If a country is seriously threatened or attacked and they have nukes they will use them at some point.

Do you think France would allow themselves to be invaded without using everything at their disposal?

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That is just an opinion.

As it happens France was attacked and actually didn't throw everything they had at their attackers, they were conquered quickly and easily by The third Reich. Charles De Gaul even fled France to England (and thanked us by refusing to allow Britain into the Common Market).

Here's an interesting link about France during WWII.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...zis-180967160/

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Originally Posted by STF

I understand and get your point, I also intend absolutely no disrespect to your family at all but I can't help but notice that, all the history, the books and the justifications are all from an American point of view.

Putin is justifying the invasion of Ukraine as de nazifying the country and acting on the request of the Ukrainian people. If he wins the Russian history books will show this as a crusade to save the people of Ukraine and if he uses Chemical, biological or nuclear weapons (NBC) he will justify that as speeding the end of the war and saving thousands of lives.

You know what they say about history being written by the winners.

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Keeping in mind that those estimates were presented BEFORE we won, but yes Winners write history...

To be clear the estimates were revised and given AFTER Okinawa, they realized that invading the Home Islands was not going to be what they had first thought..
The revision that was given to Truman was considered low at over 1 million dead but I understand that was the reason he decided to drop the first bomb

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Originally Posted by STF

That is just an opinion.

As it happens France was attacked and actually didn't throw everything they had at their attackers, they were conquered quickly and easily by The third Reich. Charles De Gaul even fled France to England (and thanked us by refusing to allow Britain into the Common Market).

Here's an interesting link about France during WWII.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...zis-180967160/

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I didn't say anything about France and WWll. I was using France only as an example that any country with nukes would use them if they were invaded and their backs were against the wall.

Vichy smishy. Hitler had a hatred for France especially because of the way Germany was treated after WWl. Even if the French fought to the last man they were doomed. You can argue the Vichy were simply collaborators or they tried to "save france" it doesn't matter much. History has been written.

Looks like Putin is asking China for Arms and funding

Are we even sure the Russian Nukes actually work ??