Thread: Fifth Annual Israeli Apartheid Week, March 1-7, 2009

Originally Posted by jockeys

well that's officially the worst thing I've ever heard.

Amen brother!

Why do we allow States to kill as punishment, when within each State the individual is not allowed to do the same? A man comes into my house and kills my family while I am away. Am I then allowed to track him down and kill him? Even if you think I would be justified in doing so, the law says I am not. So why do these same laws not apply to States? One side kills the other sides' soldiers, so the other side kills some of theirs. One side bombs the other, so the other side bombs them back. Apparently that is acceptable? Is it because it is "WAR"? Does that change the rules? If that is true, then no one should have any problems with what either side is up to.

The problem as I see it is that the rest of the world do not have the balls to police either of these States. Hamas breached the cease fire? Then why did the rest of the world not step in and police them? It is easy to sit back from behind our castle walls and yap at the passers by and pretend we are not involved or responsible.

The reason we cannot find a resolution in the Middle East is that the rest of us are not prepared to step up and accept respnsibility for it. It is not just about Israel and Palestine. But it is convenient and easy for the rest of us to believe it is.

James.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

Here's an interesting article from that infamous antisemitic hate rag Haaretz, written by a well-known neo-Nazi and self-hating Jew:

Gideon Levy / Everyone agrees: War in Gaza was a failure


"It was all in vain: no progress made, no goal achieved, nothing. Deterrence wasn't reestablished, arms smuggling into Gaza was not stopped, Hamas was not weakened and abducted Israel Defense Forces soldier Gilad Shalit was not freed. On these facts we all agree.
Moreover, we paid a huge price: Hamas is stronger, the hurt Palestinian people are even more hateful toward us, and Israel is viewed as a pariah in world public opinion, with rioting on a basketball court in Ankara where an Israeli team played and the banning of spectators from Israel's Davis Cup tennis encounter with Sweden in Malmo, as the last of the rogue states."

Man, can you believe the incredible hate this sicko is spewing???????????????

You are the one pouring hate by beginning this idiocy, Chimensch. You should be ashamed of yourself. You call yourself a Jew? How dare you put down my/your country and my/your people, and desecrate my/your roots. Mi scusi, tu sei il concetto di vergogna.

Jeff

Oh I am SO ibtl

Originally Posted by jockeys

Oh I am SO ibtl

IBTL: In Before the Lock. I had to look it up. I agree that the thread should have been locked when the name-calling started. The moderator seems to be looking the other way. Maybe because he thinks that I can take care of myself, or that I brought it on myself, or both. Or maybe because it's a family fight that doesn't affect the forum in general, so long as it doesn't spread. In any case, prepare to see me (virtually) torn apart by wolves.

Originally Posted by crackstar

You are the one pouring hate by beginning this idiocy, Chimensch. You should be ashamed of yourself. You call yourself a Jew? How dare you put down my/your country and my/your people, and desecrate my/your roots. Mi scusi, tu sei il concetto di vergogna.

If what you are saying is that I should be ashamed of myself for criticizing my/your people in public, I don't agree. But first a grammar lesson: you have mixed the familiar and polite forms. You can say, "Scusami, tu sei il concetto della vergogna" or you can say, "Mi scusi, Lei è il concetto della vergogna" but I don't know why you would want to use the polite form to say it.

There is another Italian word that applies here, omertà, the code of silence of the Mafia. You know that something is wrong but you keep silent because loyalty to the family is the most important thing. I believe that if something is wrong, you have to speak out against it. It's all in my signature, "Opposition is true friendship".

He is trying to be objective(chime). Something he at least tries to do without resorting to personal attacks. You(crackstar) on the other hand just went all out. Seemingly without regard for the rules in place for this forum, and most certainly in disdain for regular decorum.

In the early 20th century Palestine was a British protectorate. Starting in the 1930s Jews from Europe, mainly Germany, worried about Hitler's rhetoric started to migrate to Palestine. The British government, though not happy with this migration, did not make an effort stop them. Palestine at the time was inhabitied by Arab tribes called Palestinians who cultivated the land and Bedouins.

The newly arrived Jews started to seize the land of the Palestinians and forced them into exile on the Westbank, Gaza and neighbouring Arab countries where many still live in refugee camps. Even today on the Westbank land owned by Palestinians is seized by Jewish settlers who continue to build new settlements.

We got to ask ourselves: who is the terrorist here? The Palestinians who have lived for many generations in Palestine since 69 A.D. when the Romans expelled the Jews from Palestine or the Jews who claim the land is theirs because their ancestors lived there before the year 69 A.D.

As hot tempered as I am, I can also be a gentleman. Chimensch. OK, I definitely went a little insulting, but I will apologize for the comment. I still think you should stop attacking Israel, it's out of line.

Jeff

Originally Posted by crackstar

As hot tempered as I am, I can also be a gentleman. Chimensch. OK, I definitely went a little insulting, but I will apologize for the comment. I still think you should stop attacking Israel, it's out of line.

Jeff

But surely these forums & indeed the internet itself is designed for this sort of exchange of views. I find it interesting that if I criticize any one I am allowed to but if I criticize Israel I am an anti-semite. I just think for myself

Originally Posted by crackstar

As hot tempered as I am, I can also be a gentleman. Chimensch. OK, I definitely went a little insulting, but I will apologize for the comment. I still think you should stop attacking Israel, it's out of line.

Jeff

Jeff, I accept your apology also because I've had opinions similar to yours in the past. But I cannot accept that Israel is a topic that's off-limits. Israel receives about $3 billion dollars a year in aid from the US. I am a US citizen and that makes it my business. I am also Jewish and I am horrified and ashamed by what Israel claims to be doing in my name. In a democratic society we all get to speak our mind so long as we respect each other's right to have a different opinion. So, let's agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Spike J

I find it interesting that if I criticize any one I am allowed to but if I criticize Israel I am an anti-semite.

I can not find anywhere where simply criticizing Israel has been equated to being an anit-semite.
The fact that I find antisemitism here coming from someone who is also anti-israel does not mean anyone critical of Israel is an anti-Semite.
One of the most wonderful people in the world, a priest I am quite close to, is very, very VERY critical of Israel. So much so that our conversations, which have been heated, at opposition to each other, and at times seemingly to big to continue a friendship through, well...we leave Israel out of it, because of how strongly we both feel about it. He is also, with NO doubt in any part of my mind, absolutely NOT an anti-semite. His daughter married a Jew and converted to Judaism. He was very happy sitting with me in the Temple at their wedding. We danced together, and we celebrate BOTH of our holidays together in joy and loving friendship.

The moral? Being critical of israel is NOT being an antiseminte. Thought most anti-semites are also anti-israel.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

. In a democratic society we all get to speak our mind so long as we respect each other's right to have a different opinion. So, let's agree to disagree.

If I may be so bold as to jump in here. While I (here's a shocker) disagree with you in the strongest possible terms about israel, it is of course, fair game to discuss, as is abortion, and other hot button topics in our society.

When it comes to "jews are...." type of language, we are not talking about people, but you are lumping me and nearly all of my relatives into a group without knowing us. And the language following that "Jews are..." has not frequently been positive. May I ask that you refrain from making generalizations about whole religions, just as one wouldn't want someone talking about "Blacks are...." etc. It's just not proper. Need to discuss extremists withing a religion? That's narrowing things down a bit, making the whole thing a little less objectionable.

Of course, you are free to ignore my request.