Thread: For An Intelligent Conversation On Spirituality/Religion

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I used to have a sign on my door which read, "There will be a $5.00 charge for religious and commercial solicitations"

If the salesmen and saleswomen believe in what they are doing they will pay the fee, no? Isn't my soul worth at least $5? Alas, I made no money from my venture

I guess I can provide the analysis....
It looks to me there are two conditions, and the end result means that at least one of them failed.
I think in your case I may have gotten a freebie

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well, and let them lead the way.

Well, it all boils down to how one defines 'well'. Oh, well....

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

Broad brush strokes are painted here.

There are so many coverall statements made about christians in this topic that I can hardly believe it.

Do they? Really? All of them?

There's a few more examples but I'd encourage those who're commenting on someone else's beliefs to take a good look at your own posts and see if you're not making assumption based on prejudice.

Meeting a christian who believed something says NOTHING about the millions of others out there.

I don't say: I met an Atheist and he believed weird things and did weird things because of it so all atheists must believe the same things either. That'd just be stupid. And yet when something like that is said about christians it's acceptable.

Think before you type gents.

You have to first determine if the person is an Atheist or Christian, or are they claiming to be an Atheist or Christian? Because if their claiming to be one or other then their opinions can vary, but if they truly are what they say then they will all meet the same criteria of their beliefs with no varience. Hence a true Christian will say that an unbeliever in Jesus Christ will go to Hell , NOT MAY GO and a TRUE Atheist will say THERE IS NO GOD, NOT THERE MAY NOT BE.

Originally Posted by paco

Hence a true Christian will say that an unbeliever in Jesus Christ will go to Hell , NOT MAY GO and a TRUE Atheist will say THERE IS NO GOD, NOT THERE MAY NOT BE.

I would have agreed with that some years ago but now I don't. It depends on what you think a "true" one or the other is. IOW, there are people who consider themselves Christian that don't believe that and there are people who call themselves atheist who aren't sure what they believe. Those folks used to be called agnostics but if they call themselves by one or the other of those terms who am I to say that they are not? I'm not always as right as I used to be.

I, myself, was raised in the church as a pentecostal/charismatic. Since then, I've adopted those beliefs to be true, but have realized what was trying to be said all along. I firmly believe that Christianity, in general, has gotten off track. Life is about two things - and this is my personal opinion: your relationship with your creator, and your relationship with everyone else on Earth.

I believe that the Bible is truth; recorded history. I believe that Jesus was a real person, God in the flesh, and that he died to remit my sins. I believe that he was buried in a tomb, but death could not hold him. I believe that he rose on the third day.

Hell, as we have come to know it, has been jaded over the years. I, personally, don't know of any scripture that referrs to hell as a place of fire. I do know that there is "torment and gnashing of teeth," but more importantly there will be a removal of love. There are no relationships in hell. When the Bible references removal from God's love, it's talking about relationship with God, and relationship with others. I envision hell to be permanent isolation.

Yes, I know that there are people who disagree with me, and that's ok! I firmly believe that negative action against people who don't side with you is unbiblical. Please don't reference the Old Testament, in opposition to that statement. That is a completely different story of God and his infinite complexities. If you wish to know why God made it alright to slaughter millions, but later made it a no-no, feel free to ask.

I believe in the Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I believe that the book of Corinthians references the manifestation of the Holy Spirit on the post-Christ church, and that He still acts in society.

I believe that the Bible clearly outlines how to get to heaven.

I believe that God loves every person. Race, orientation, belief, lack of belief, history, addictions, criminal record, salary, and emotional problems wont ever separate you from God's love in this realm.

I, personally, have found an extreme level of contentedness and peace in my life through these beliefs. I do believe that some people use religion as a crutch to fill an emotional void in their lives. I've also found that it's these people who use extremist measures to promote their beliefs: I.E. bombing abortion clinics (which is a horrible thing to do).

This is what I believe and hold to be true. If you disagree with me and tell me I'm a horrible person, it's fine! It's ok to disagree. I have agreed to disagree with many people in my life.

And just like my relationship with every one else in my life, my relationship with God is always changing, always learning. In my past, I have come to drop certain beliefs in the Christian faith, and through scripture have come to adopt other beliefs.

My two cents.

-Derek

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I would have agreed with that some years ago but now I don't. It depends on what you think a "true" one or the other is. IOW, there are people who consider themselves Christian that don't believe that and there are people who call themselves atheist who aren't sure what they believe. Those folks used to be called agnostics but if they call themselves by one or the other of those terms who am I to say that they are not
? I'm not always as right as I used to be.

Not to argue but, the problem is just what you said, the definition of TRUTH has changed from it's definite meaning to a relative term which no longer makes it truth.

Christianity and Atheism have or should I say had, eluding to my former statement about truth, precise definitions and beliefs.

Scripture says, and I'm paraphrasing many verses, those who deny Christ are lost. This is not my opinion, but God's Word.

who am I to say that they are not
Knowing the true definition you can say if they are or are not by asking for their definition of what they claim

Originally Posted by paco

This is not my opinion, but God's Word.

Actually, the logically true statement is that this is your opinion/belief of what God's word is. I'm glad that it works for you, but I also recognize that you are a minority.

Originally Posted by gugi

Actually, the logically true statement is that this is your opinion/belief of what God's word is. I'm glad that it works for you, but I also recognize that you are a minority.

+1 on this. Other Christians might argue with me, but in order to properly defend any position, you must accept that you might be wrong. I firmly believe that the Bible is truth, but other religions also believe that their text is the inerrant truth, as well.

Its my opinion that any religion, for the individual, is a powerful thing...but in the hands of the masses leads to all sorts of horrible senarios.
I like those parts of the Bible that focus on 'self.' Just my thing.

Originally Posted by gugi

Actually, the logically true statement is that this is your opinion/belief of what God's word is. I'm glad that it works for you, but I also recognize that you are a minority.

Does being a minority make me either correct or incorrect. If we're speaking logic would it not be better for me to die believing there is a God and be wrong and lose nothing, than to not believe be wrong , die , and lose everything ?