Thread: Pres. Obama, between a rock and a hard place.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Could you PLEASE !!!!!! let the rest of the world know this too.....
in other words,,,,

"Your on your own, and you can all kiss my red,white, and blue butt"

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

Glen makes a good point, sometimes the US is vilified for not "helping" too.
Where is the line, and when does something become meddling? I genuinely value foreign points of view. I lived in Brasil for Years and was constantly barraged by individual opinions about the US and her actions, and to a point, I can understand different points of view. As an American however, it feels (don't know how else to say this) like my country is expected to be the police and the worldwide humanitarian service, and at the same time vilified for it. That is what it FEELS like sometimes.

Don't know how much I can say without getting too far off track, so I'll stop here for a while.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Exactly Del1r1um you end up like a cop at a domestic call, they want help but turn on you as soon as you actually do something, a very dangerous spot to be in....

Me too!


Group hug!

Originally Posted by pio

Every time the US mess with other country right to do whatever they want, it always blow in our face,
2 Examples: Afghanistan, Iraq

except when it doesn't. 2 examples:
Germany, Germany again.

Originally Posted by pio

so what?
its their problem...not ours...
let them deal with it...

its time for us to stop messing around with the rest of the world when we have tons of problems here!.

What I am saying pio is that if we as a nation use the above thinking to not involve ourselves into problems around the world then we as a nation are lower than worms!
We should do what we do based on what is right and best for all involved, not because we can't be bothered.

Understand this, I am not saying I know what is right here I just know that decisions made by the above logic is wrong and selfish And I could never trust anyone who would use that sort of logic.

Originally Posted by jockeys

except when it doesn't. 2 examples:
Germany, Germany again.

well...another logically incorrect argument...apples to oranges once again...

last time i check neither Iran or Afghanistan were trying to take over the world...
or killing millions over millions of minorities...or trying to expand to other countries...

just saying...

and for the record the Iraq I'm talking about is the Iraq that we helped when we put Saddam into power...

Originally Posted by JMS

Wife: "oh look honey, that man over there is hitting that lady. she's bleeding all over the place!"

Husband: "Turn away dear and pretend you didn't see anything. We have enough problems."

Are you suggesting that the US intervene to stop the government to from suppressing the opposition?

So you would have been fine with a foriegn country intervening on behalf of southern blacks during the Civil Rights movement here? Or how about when Government marched on the Bonus Army during the Hoover administration? Or perhaps during the Civil War?

This conflict is Iran's problem, and there is nothing the US can do that will make it better.

Originally Posted by pio

well...another logically incorrect argument...apples to oranges once again...

last time i check neither Iran or Afghanistan were trying to take over the world...
or killing millions over millions of minorities...or trying to expand to other countries...

to quote Iranian President Ahmadinejad: "Israel must be wiped off the map."

Well, that does sound like killing millions of minorities (incidentally, the selfsame minorities the Germans were after)

to clarify the above quote, see comments by Paul Martin (PM of Canada) "this threat to Israel's existence, this call for genocide coupled with Iran's obvious nuclear ambitions is a matter that the world cannot ignore"

in 2007 the US House of Representatives voted to issue a call to the UN. The exact wording: "Calling on the United Nations Security Council to charge Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with violating the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of GenocideUnited Nations Charter because of his calls for the destruction of the State of Israel."

furthermore, the Ayatollah of Iran (the supreme religious ruler of the theocracy) has gone on record saying "this cancerous tumor of a state [Israel] should be removed from the region"

to wit: Iran seems like a VERY good example of an apples-to-apples comparison with certain 1930s German ideologies. Iran is interested in, by the statements of its two leaders, "killing millions of minorities"

Originally Posted by jockeys

except when it doesn't. 2 examples:
Germany, Germany again.

Actually, neither of those cases are good examples. In the First World War, the US didn't intervene militarily untill very late in the conflict, a conflict that started with Germany invading thier neighbors. In the case of the Second World War, Germany again invaded their neighbors and the US didn't enter the war untill they had war declared upon them by both Japan and Germany.

Let the Muslims fight the Muslims, its been going on for almost 2000 years, as long as they are fighting each other, the world is relatively safe. As long as the hostilities are confined its not our problem. If the US should get involved it should be a backdoor(CIA) effort. Unfortunately these have a history of biting us in the butt as well. So my thoughts are to "walk softly and carry a big stick". If this is what Obama is doing, good for him.

Originally Posted by jockeys

...to wit: Iran seems like a VERY good example of an apples-to-apples comparison with certain 1930s German ideologies. Iran is interested in, by the statements of its two leaders, "killing millions of minorities"

You mean "it will be a very good example of apples to apples when Iran actually gets her army mobilized to do something outside her own borders"

Saber rattling aside, Iran has done none of the things her leaders keep yapping about. She's nothing but a big mouth at this point, and not very likely to ever have a nuke.

One more thing, Israel isn't France. That's all I have to say on that issue.

Originally Posted by jockeys

to quote Iranian President Ahmadinejad: "Israel must be wiped off the map."

Well, that does sound like killing millions of minorities (incidentally, the selfsame minorities the Germans were after)

to clarify the above quote, see comments by Paul Martin (PM of Canada) "this threat to Israel's existence, this call for genocide coupled with Iran's obvious nuclear ambitions is a matter that the world cannot ignore"

in 2007 the US House of Representatives voted to issue a call to the UN. The exact wording: "Calling on the United Nations Security Council to charge Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with violating the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of GenocideUnited Nations Charter because of his calls for the destruction of the State of Israel."

furthermore, the Ayatollah of Iran (the supreme religious ruler of the theocracy) has gone on record saying "this cancerous tumor of a state [Israel] should be removed from the region"

to wit: Iran seems like a VERY good example of an apples-to-apples comparison with certain 1930s German ideologies. Iran is interested in, by the statements of its two leaders, "killing millions of minorities"

to the best of my knowledge the US is doing something about the nuclear weapons...with the UN, the correct mechanism to do it...the world didn't have the UN back during WWI/II...and the wars were the reason the UN was created...

Also...hate speech is OK here in the states, but when we go to other countries is not?

You can defend freedom of speech as you seem convenient...

and i stand by my argument...apple to oranges...
Iran is just mouth so far...
if they move ahead with the nuclear program or start attacking Isarael...i would support an invasion...

their internal political problem its their...
when they start messing with OTHER countries that's another story!