Thread: Health Care in the USA

By your own logic, we should then bring free healthcare to the whole of the country. If the ones without health insurance are the dumb students, and the people with health insurance are the ones who excel, then we should bring health insurance to everyone.

Originally Posted by Leighton

By your own logic, we should then bring free healthcare to the whole of the country. If the ones without health insurance are the dumb students, and the people with health insurance are the ones who excel, then we should bring health insurance to everyone.

The fault I see with your argument is the "free" part. Someone's got to pay for it. You don't bring up the slow students to a "C" by redistributing grade points and thereby lowering the "A" students down to a "C." That is not excelling.

But it seems to me that this redistribution is exactly what Obama and his supporters are after. Instead of with grade points, with our wealth. Instead of raising everyone to prosperity, we all end up poorer.

P.S.- Another thought: by requiring everyone to join a national health care system, you are thereby obligating everyone (well, not everyone - only those with ability) to work to fund the program for the benefit of everyone.

In other words, if you are able, you are obligated to labor for the benefit of others - that is the definition of slavery.

OK, if the diabetic stayed at the orphanage and there were no state insurance. Everything else is the same.

Would this slow student deserve help then?

or would (s)he die of diabetic complications in the 30's?

Originally Posted by Pyment

OK, if the diabetic stayed at the orphanage and there were no state insurance. Everything else is the same.

Would this slow student deserve help then?

or would (s)he die of diabetic complications in the 30's?

If.......

If the moon collided with the earth tomorrow, would I spill my beer?

Read what I posted about social problems. I also posted about churches and charities.

Are you suggesting that there are no solutions short of abandoning American fundamental principles regarding individual liberties? In other words, either we continue down the road to socialism or we're doomed? I find that scenario unacceptable.

Heck no, Hoss! I don't like this state takeover at all!

I never said the state was the solution. In fact, I think if people kept more of their own money, charities would be better able to provide services.

Originally Posted by honedright

By requiring everyone to join a national health care system, you are thereby obligating everyone (well, not everyone - only those with ability) to work to fund the program for the benefit of everyone.

So, we'd be working to fund something we benefit from?

I admit there are going to be freeloaders, but short of killing them, theres not much we can do about that. They'll always have the ER according to you and the current laws.

Originally Posted by Leighton

So, we'd be working to fund something we benefit from?

I admit there are going to be freeloaders, but short of killing them, theres not much we can do about that. They'll always have the ER according to you and the current laws.

Leighton, you're a student correct? Do you also work while going to school? Does your employer deduct social security tax from your paycheck? Are you receiving social security benefits currently? Not unless you are at least 62 years old. In which case someone else is benefiting from your labor.

Lets say we add in an additional tax for public welcare (welfare + health care). More of the funds you earned go towards benefiting others. Yes you get some of the benefit too.

Let me ask you this, if a slave is forced to cook a meal for his master and his master tosses some of the scraps of the meal back to the slave, the slave gets to eat some of the meal he cooked. Is he any less a slave for this "benefit" from his master?

Saw this and thought of this thread.

Originally Posted by honedright

Leighton, you're a student correct? Do you also work while going to school? Does your employer deduct social security tax from your paycheck? Are you receiving social security benefits currently? Not unless you are at least 62 years old. In which case someone else is benefiting from your labor.

Lets say we add in an additional tax for public welcare (welfare + health care). More of the funds you earned go towards benefiting others. Yes you get some of the benefit too.

Let me ask you this, if a slave is forced to cook a meal for his master and his master tosses some of the scraps of the meal back to the slave, the slave gets to eat some of the meal he cooked. Is he any less a slave for this "benefit" from his master?

I have worked out of college before going to law school. Yes, my social security taxes don't benefit me yet. But if I live to be old enough to collect social security I damn well earned it. Its a form of forced savings for retirement. I don't begrudge it.

I would not have a problem with that. I would be paying my fair share of the costs. I pay a tax on gas and I use the roads. In fact, I probably pay a hell of a lot less than I benefit. I pay a tax on my electricity and water, but I probably benefit a lot more than I pay in taxes.

Would I pay more than my fair share for a national healthcare system? Probably, I'm young and healthy & my family doesn't have a history of any life threatening diseases. But, like I said before, I am more than willing to pay 2-5% more in taxes to fund said system. I'd even be willing to do so at my earnings rates before law school. $10/hour.

The government does not own me. I am a voter and a citizen, I think the roles are reversed. The government ultimately answers to the populace. The government does not own you either. I don't understand the slave analogy.

I can understand that you don't want your taxes increased, thats your viewpoint, I will not try to change it. I don't feel that is my job.

If your willing to kill the baby in my hypothetical, or Py's diabetic. That is fine. Its one way of viewing the world. If you don't want your taxes raised, again, your viewpoint. If you don't like the proposed fix to healthcare, again, your viewpoint. But if you don't want people freeloading off the ER room, just say so, I'll respect your view.

If your adamant about not being taxed, I can understand that too. But if you want to benefit from government, we have to pay taxes. I personally like benefiting from what society has to offer. Roads, electricity, water, internet, plentiful food, infrastructure, military, police, firefighters, etc. I have never had to use the firefighters, but I'm glad I have them.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

As has been previously pointed out the participation of all will help to keep the overall rates down. It is not a question of what might be better for one individual than another but for the improved well being of all.

Thanks Jimmy. This is exactly the idea. And this is why everyone can enjoy healthcare over here. And this is also why so many Americans are fighting the idea.