Thread: This one is seriously painful.

Well, if you look him up in wikipedia, there is a great number of attributed quotes by him on issues of race, homosexuality, religion and other topics that pretty much put him in the 'bigot' box. 'Conservative' does not really cut it for Pat imo, since many people here can be considered conservative, yet are nowhere near him in those issues.

And yes, Congo is forever our shame. Kinda like Jews for Germany, Native Americans for the US, etc.

I don't compare Americans with Belgians because that was not the point. The point wast that Americans now are no worse than Americans then. It had nothing to do with differences between Americans and other people.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

As far as the USA and racism, most of the Caucasian cultures have their legacy of injustice and bigotry.

Yes, and they would be relevant if we were talking about a french pundit, or a British one, or any one else really. But, it is true that America was racist at that time, and this would generally be considered a bad thing today, so the idea that Americans were once better than they are today is foolish, because you can't possibly measure all the criteria. Different, but not better, or worse really.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Well, if you look him up in wikipedia, there is a great number of attributed quotes by him on issues of race, homosexuality, religion and other topics that pretty much put him in the 'bigot' box. 'Conservative' does not really cut it for Pat imo, since many people here can be considered conservative, yet are nowhere near him in those issues.

And yes, Congo is forever our shame. Kinda like Jews for Germany, Native Americans for the US, etc.

I don't compare Americans with Belgians because that was not the point. The point wast that Americans now are no worse than Americans then. It had nothing to do with differences between Americans and other people.

As far as Buchanan I was going by some of his columns and TV appearances. I will take a look at the Wiki entries.

My point in mentioning the Belgian Congo wasn't to compare one countries atrocities with another's .... rather that the human race, white, black, brown, red or yellow is capable of terrible inhumanity in past history, now and in the future.

Originally Posted by Stubear

Yep, I am too. Life has never been cheaper than it is right now here in the UK, with people being shot and stabbed for looking at someone the wrong way. And I`m not kidding! Hardly a day goes by without seeing another victim of gang violence or mugging.

I dont want to empathise with anyone who could take a life, or exploit and abuse a young child as in this sickening case. All I want to do is put the fear of god into them, so that some are put off committing these terrible crimes. And those that arent put off receive an appropriate punishment!

Wow,
UK has violence like that? I thought they got rid of violence when they took the right to own firearms away. Hmmmm. I know it is off point a little but could not help myself.
M

Hey guys. I am all for an "Is America a racist country and was America a racist country" discussion but this thread was about that poor young lady and the slimy bastard who kidnapped and raped her.

Bruno, I am up for the topic if you wish to start it using Mr Buchanan's quote.

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Wow,
UK has violence like that? I thought they got rid of violence when they took the right to own firearms away. Hmmmm. I know it is off point a little but could not help myself.
M

They never took the right to own firearms away, we still posses the legal right to own shotguns in this country.

Also, whilst there is knife crime, it's very localized and IMO the post RE knife crime was sensationalist at best. Easily the most prevalent type of assault in this country is alcohol related, that is the biggest issue for a few of our neighboring countries as well. Course, you get other nice things like the 'ER' being full of alcohol related cases on friday and saturday night. Bullets would still make the papers, 14 years olds getting their stomachs pumped not so much.

Generally, people in this country do not carry weapons, there's no point. Off topic indeed, but, as I've got older - whilst I would love to be able to shoot more freely, I think a society in which you don't need to carry a gun to protect your self is preferable to one that you do. You're not really gaining or loosing anything in terms of security, but it reduces the prevalence of guns, and reduces the chances of them getting into the wrong hands.

But hey, what do I know.

Originally Posted by gregs656

They never took the right to own firearms away, we still posses the legal right to own shotguns in this country.

Also, whilst there is knife crime, it's very localized and IMO the post RE knife crime was sensationalist at best. Easily the most prevalent type of assault in this country is alcohol related, that is the biggest issue for a few of our neighboring countries as well. Course, you get other nice things like the 'ER' being full of alcohol related cases on friday and saturday night. Bullets would still make the papers, 14 years olds getting their stomachs pumped not so much.

The first point is true, we can still own rifles and shotguns in the UK, just not pistols.

The knife crime being localised? I'm not so sure. Its very widespread across London with stabbings occuring in seemingly very upmarket areas. There does seem to be at least 2 or 3 lethal stabbings a week here. And its becoming very common in other large cities as well, which is worrying.

Definately agree with you on the alcohol issue though, the British national pastime is fast becoming "Go out, get drunk and start a fight" and there is ALWAYS broken glass and scuffles in the street in SoHo in the evening. I go out there often and I've never not seen one.

I'm not saying we should all carry guns to protect ourselves, but what I am saying is that people should be hammered by the courts for the crimes they commit. A stabbing is murder. Full stop. If the victim lives its only the skill of the doctors that kept them alive, the perp had no way of knowing they would live when he stabbed them.

Life should mean life for violent crime and if you take a life you should pay with yours.

And, getting back on topic, crimes against children like this one should recieve the death penalty. There just is no excuse in any way whatsoever for what this guy did. I dont care if he thought he heard angels telling him to do it or if he claims the devil whispered in his ear, he should be hanged. Or whatever the equivalent is in the state it happened, be it lethal injection or whatever.

Originally Posted by Stubear

The first point is true, we can still own rifles and shotguns in the UK, just not pistols.

The knife crime being localised? I'm not so sure. Its very widespread across London with stabbings occuring in seemingly very upmarket areas. There does seem to be at least 2 or 3 lethal stabbings a week here. And its becoming very common in other large cities as well, which is worrying.

Definately agree with you on the alcohol issue though, the British national pastime is fast becoming "Go out, get drunk and start a fight" and there is ALWAYS broken glass and scuffles in the street in SoHo in the evening. I go out there often and I've never not seen one.

I'm not saying we should all carry guns to protect ourselves, but what I am saying is that people should be hammered by the courts for the crimes they commit. A stabbing is murder. Full stop. If the victim lives its only the skill of the doctors that kept them alive, the perp had no way of knowing they would live when he stabbed them.

Life should mean life for violent crime and if you take a life you should pay with yours.

And, getting back on topic, crimes against children like this one should recieve the death penalty. There just is no excuse in any way whatsoever for what this guy did. I dont care if he thought he heard angels telling him to do it or if he claims the devil whispered in his ear, he should be hanged. Or whatever the equivalent is in the state it happened, be it lethal injection or whatever.

Not quite, fella, we don't have the legal right to own a rifle. We can apply to have one, and they can grant the request (but you have to specify where you use it etc etc, and if you want another one you must reapply) a shotgun, they have to find a reason not to give you one. You can have as many as you like and use them where ever you like.

Localized - I was thinking london really, you don't here about it so much any where else.

I basically disagree with you on the rest of it, from 'A stabbing is murder . . . ' but that's not for today.

Originally Posted by gregs656

Not quite, fella, we don't have the legal right to own a rifle. We can apply to have one, and they can grant the request (but you have to specify where you use it etc etc, and if you want another one you must reapply) a shotgun, they have to find a reason not to give you one. You can have as many as you like and use them where ever you like.

You're right, I stand corrected. I knew there were some subtleties to the licensing, I just couldnt remember them when I wrote the post..!

On everything else, I suppose its a very difficult and sensitive subject and feelings do run high..! I guess thats one we'd have to thrash out over a pint or two..!

I thought this thread was about some asshole in California that kept a girl prisoner in his backyard?