Thread: Rep. Joe Wilson apologized.

I think using the term "Death Panel" was an unfortunate mistake. I understand what the bill does. What I disagree with is the concept that individuals need a government provision to make sure that they talk to their doctors about future planning. Or any planning for that matter.

Do we need the government to prompt us to discuss private matters with our doctors? Are we that dependent? Are we that oblivious about our own needs?

We need someone else to tell us what to do, how and when? Really??

The idea that some benevolent "official" thinks we need to be prodded in order to do the right thing for ourselves. Doesn't that arrogance bother anyone, besides me, just a little?

Originally Posted by honedright

What I disagree with is the concept that individuals need a government provision to make sure that they talk to their doctors about future planning. Or any planning for that matter.

We need someone else to tell us what to do, how and when? Really??

You see, your words are asking a single question with an obvious answer, but there are really two other questions here that are more important.

1. Should we need the government to tell us to make a living will?

Personally, I say no. We shouldn't need that.


2. Are there many people in this country who are either so lazy or so incompetent that they really do need the government to tell them to make a living will?

Personally, I say yes. I see these people every day, in uncountable droves.



What that leads us to, is how do we see to the well being of our society by reducing the financial burden of idiots who never set up a living will, without unduly incurring cost and inconveniencing people who have their act together without government intervention.

Sitting through your "death panel" with your doctor would take about 2 minutes if you already have a living will, and could simply be taken care of at a regular check-up, so there's no added cost and no meaningful inconvenience to people with an IQ over 90, while all the people who are too lazy or incompetent to take care of it on their own, will have their hand held through the process so they don't become a burden to the rest of us.

The Associated Press: Health care talks focus on illegal immigrants

( AP about as neutral as you can get ...just the facts the fact seems to be there's rally not much precedent for proof of citizenship...big problem.As the story says Obama is pushing for no illegal immigrant coverage...I.D. is a problem.

National Review: William F. Buckley, Jr. ?????


Founder editor at large ,I think till his passing ,a little to right for me ,great minds just misled.)

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/michhop/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]http://www.slate.com/id/2115253/ google this read top result at slate ...
The Washington Examiner...hello can you say Tabloid can you say space babies National Enquirer can we say if you call this an informational source
your license to think should be revoked ... not to be mean about it, but like most of the hard righties you should a little more like 5 real minutes...

Originally Posted by honedright

How about this news source. Or do you have something derogatory to say about the Washington Examiner too.
(READ the wiki on that rag!!!!)

Obamacare won't cover illegal immigrants? Yes it will, says Congressional Research Service | Washington Examiner

Or this source.
Surely no draft dodging drywall hangers or pill addicts here: Is the Congressional Research Service Making 'False Claims' Too? - Mark Krikorian - The Corner on National Review Online

Facts enough for you?

NOT HARDLY ....but I expect it is for you small minds think alike...
But I have other RW BH's to beat up on now see ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by michhop

The Associated Press: Health care talks focus on illegal immigrants

( AP about as neutral as you can get ...just the facts the fact seems to be there's rally not much precedent for proof of citizenship...big problem.As the story says Obama is pushing for no illegal immigrant coverage...I.D. is a problem.

National Review: William F. Buckley, Jr. ?????


Founder editor at large ,I think till his passing ,a little to right for me ,great minds just misled.)

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/michhop/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]http://www.slate.com/id/2115253/ google this read top result at slate ...
The Washington Examiner...hello can you say Tabloid can you say space babies National Enquirer can we say if you call this an informational source
your license to think should be revoked ... not to be mean about it, but like most of the hard righties you should a little more like 5 real minutes...



NOT HARDLY ....but I expect it is for you small minds think alike...
But I have other RW BH's to beat up on now see ya!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although I don't believe you're directing what I view as insults to me personally, I'd like to think our exchange of discourse is a bit more civil than the way you're responding here.

Chris L

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

You see, your words are asking a single question with an obvious answer, but there are really two other questions here that are more important.

1. Should we need the government to tell us to make a living will?

Personally, I say no. We shouldn't need that.


2. Are there many people in this country who are either so lazy or so incompetent that they really do need the government to tell them to make a living will?

Personally, I say yes. I see these people every day, in uncountable droves.



What that leads us to, is how do we see to the well being of our society by reducing the financial burden of idiots who never set up a living will, without unduly incurring cost and inconveniencing people who have their act together without government intervention.

Sitting through your "death panel" with your doctor would take about 2 minutes if you already have a living will, and could simply be taken care of at a regular check-up, so there's no added cost and no meaningful inconvenience to people with an IQ over 90, while all the people who are too lazy or incompetent to take care of it on their own, will have their hand held through the process so they don't become a burden to the rest of us.

Actually, from what I read in the provision (this was a couple weeks ago), it does not direct anyone to make a living will or advance directive. It merely clarifies that Medicare will pay for the consultation regarding the available options - that it will be paid for once every five years unless a new diagnosis is made within that time. The provision simply defines the benefit as a covered service. Certain pundits have tried to create a hysteria around the issue.

Jordan

I pulled this from the bill:

Advance Care Planning Consultation

(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term 'advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

the rest is here: Text of H.R.3200 as Introduced in House: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

There is so much to this bill, it's a nightmare.

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

You see, your words are asking a single question with an obvious answer, but there are really two other questions here that are more important.

1. Should we need the government to tell us to make a living will?

Personally, I say no. We shouldn't need that.


2. Are there many people in this country who are either so lazy or so incompetent that they really do need the government to tell them to make a living will?

Personally, I say yes. I see these people every day, in uncountable droves.



What that leads us to, is how do we see to the well being of our society by reducing the financial burden of idiots who never set up a living will, without unduly incurring cost and inconveniencing people who have their act together without government intervention.

Sitting through your "death panel" with your doctor would take about 2 minutes if you already have a living will, and could simply be taken care of at a regular check-up, so there's no added cost and no meaningful inconvenience to people with an IQ over 90, while all the people who are too lazy or incompetent to take care of it on their own, will have their hand held through the process so they don't become a burden to the rest of us.

Now Steve you just made a very good point here, and I think you also just came to the true problem in societies today...
The Sheeple, and why the Government in their infinite wisdom thinks that we are all Sheeple, and that we do need to be herded along though our mundane little Sheeple lives ....

Now dealing with John Q Public, yes, I tend to agree with you, that not many, but most are to stupid to guide their own lives, and really that is what this boils down to isn't it... Because the masses of the unwashed, illiterate, and lazy, can't do for themselves, we must all do for them...
Because it is much easier for our Government drovers to move us along as a herd, those of us that want to move on our own, become the problem not the solution....

I'm not entirely sure if that was completely sincere, sarcastic or a little of both.

There is a lot of truth to the notion that the government sees all of us as "sheeple" but I think that allowing it is a slippery slope.

I have no problem with having these sorts of consultations paid, and if they were mandatory, I'd be okay with that too.

However, it's important that each time something like this comes up, people carefully examine it. There certainly are those in politics today who would gladly have the government completely run the lives of the average american.

Apologizing was the right thing to do. Regardless of whatever party the president belongs to,you would not stand up and call your boss a liar in the middle of a presentation. I DID NOT VOTE THIS TIME. My reason is because no matter who I voted for.....we keep showing the world how divided a country we are on all levels. I am sure lots of countries are trying to figure out how to topple us. I believe we are at our weakest. The people we put in office cannot even contain themselves. That was for the whole world to see. I would not have done that to Bush, and I did not agree with most of his policies.

Originally Posted by honedright

How about this news source. Or do you have something derogatory to say about the Washington Examiner too.

Obamacare won't cover illegal immigrants? Yes it will, says Congressional Research Service | Washington Examiner

Or this source.
Surely no draft dodging drywall hangers or pill addicts here: Is the Congressional Research Service Making 'False Claims' Too? - Mark Krikorian - The Corner on National Review Online

Facts enough for you?

No, because those aren't facts. Now we consider agenda-based blogs factual "news sources"? The first article is an editorial written by a member of the Heritage Foundation!

I cited articles taken directly from the bill. You cite blogs. Basically you're saying that, despite being explicitly written in the bill it's still incorrect because there isn't an additional section that says the first section will be enforced?

Let's pretend that we're in opposite land where the opinions are right and the facts are wrong. Some stereotype that you hate signs up for self-sufficient public option. They get treated and your private insurance isn't affected.

What happens now? Some stereotype that you hate walks into the emergency room without insurance, gets treated, and now your private insurance costs have to be raised to cover it.

Some 45M American citizens are without insurance and countless others have insurance that will not reimburse them. I guess they're all "draft dodging (Really? When was our last draft, anyway? It's cool for the government to force kids into the military, but heaven forbid we try to keep them healthy!), drywall hanging, pill addicts" and don't deserve affordable coverage that's actually useful.