Thread: DEMOCRACY WILL FAIL

Originally Posted by JokiJo

I realize it's a touchy subject, especially someone who has gone through it, but it applies still.

I'm not being ignorant, I'm being blunt. You have no right to someone elses money.

Period. I don't care if you have cancer, I don't care if you're blind, I don't care if you lost your job, unless someone is willing to help you out, you don't deserve anything.

Money is time, time is someones life.

I'm sorry if that's offensive, but if you're picking hard earned money out my pocket because you can't pay your own way in this world, regardless the reason, then you don't need to be in this world. Sure, I'd GLADLY give money to save someones life, if it is someone I care for and choose to help.

Man, that is depressingly callous.

Humans are social animals. We live in societies and derive enormous benefits from doing so. In that regard, if the general will of the society is that it chooses to help those who cannot help themselves, then consider it your membership fee.

Originally Posted by JokiJo

I'm not being ignorant, I'm being blunt. You have no right to someone elses money.

I'm sorry if that's offensive, but if you're picking hard earned money out my pocket because you can't pay your own way in this world, regardless the reason, then you don't need to be in this world. Sure, I'd GLADLY give money to save someones life, if it is someone I care for and choose to help.

Federal highwys are built, whether you have a car or not.
The US army spends a ridiculous amount of money, whether you agree or not.
Public libraries get built, whether you agree or not.
National parks are maintained with federal money, whether you agree or not.

How is this any different?

When do taxes become tyranny? %50,%60,%70.....%100. I have to trade my the most valuable thing I have, time, for money. Someone who works and is only allowed to keep what will feed and shelter him, that is no different than slavery. I do believe that as a part of society we have a responsibility to contribute to the general welfare but when does it become to much? The reason that any society will fail is that governments are like a cancer that consumes till it kills the very society it exists in. It is no accident that the countries with the largest unemployment are the countries that have the highest taxes and fees. When you take away the incentive to work the everyone will work the same amount and not try to get ahead....then it is a race to the bottom! I personally don't have a lot of faith in the US anymore, we are becoming like "Old Europe" I am sad to say.

Later,
R

Originally Posted by JokiJo

I'm sorry if that's offensive, but if you're picking hard earned money out my pocket because you can't pay your own way in this world, regardless the reason, then you don't need to be in this world.

Seeing that my state-run pension fund is the 9th foreign US debt holder and my wife's state-run pension fund is the 2nd foreign US debt holder, I find that statement highly amusing.

Taxes are necessary, and are authorized by law. It's where the tax money is spent that is the issue. Also whether it is State of Federal.

For example, Military spending is authorized by Article I sec 8 of the United States Constitution and is without question for the general welfare of the country.

Farm subsidies, and other entitlement program spending, are not.

Originally Posted by honedright

Taxes are necessary, and are authorized by law. It's where the tax money is spent that is the issue. Also whether it is State of Federal.

For example, Military spending is authorized by Article 8 of the United States Constitution and is without question for the general welfare of the country.

Farm subsidies, and other entitlement program spending, are not.

I'm not sure that it IS 'without question'. Not wanting to provoke yet another discussion on which wars were justified or not, but aren't there some valid points about whether the US military spending in certain conflicts was necessary or justified or even for the benefit of the American people?

Whereas the ability of a continent to produce its own food to feed its people.... I'd say that probably is justified, no?

Healthcare is boring, weapons are fun.

Originally Posted by majurey

I'm not sure that it IS 'without question'. Not wanting to provoke yet another discussion on which wars were justified or not, but aren't there some valid points about whether the US military spending in certain conflicts was necessary or justified or even for the benefit of the American people?

Whereas the ability of a continent to produce its own food to feed its people.... I'd say that probably is justified, no?

Well, we all, as a nation, benefit from national defense. You may argue the validity of any particular war, but that is a different issue, or maybe a side issue to this one.

Only certain individual farmers benefit from farm subsidies. Not a general benefit to us all. And I believe the same is true for all entitlement spending - it benefits only special populations, therefore is not "general welfare" as I understand it.

Originally Posted by honedright

Only certain individual farmers benefit from farm subsidies. Not a general benefit to us all. And I believe the same is true for all entitlement spending - it benefits only special populations, therefore is not "general welfare" as I understand it.

I think the 'general' means the rules of availability are the same to everyone.
If you get sick, you get treated. This goes for everybody. Since not everybody gets the same sickness(es?), not everybody gets the same benefit.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I think the 'general' means the rules of availability are the same to everyone.
If you get sick, you get treated. This goes for everybody. Since not everybody gets the same sickness(es?), not everybody gets the same benefit.

Many Federal programs are not available to everyone.

What if something is generally available, but not generally applicable? Is it still general?