Thread: Health Care Reform; States suing as unconstitutional

Originally Posted by commiecat

What would you do if you got bumped off your bicycle and broke your arms? Then what would you do if somebody saw your accident and called you an ambulance?

Called and ambulance.... oh my.

Well a friend did not even break her arm.
No ride to the hospital, she finished her bike ride.... pavement rash and all
and then watched as +$15,000 in charges rolled in over the next six weeks.
She was lucky and had a good advocate and was also covered
as a member of the US Navy.

Originally Posted by honedright

Just because someone calls an ambulance, doesn't mean you are obliged to get in. In fact paramedics cannot treat without informed consent.

But of course most people with both arms fractured would want to be treated. It's the rare, rugged individual with two freshly broken arms who would forgo a proper bone setting and at least a large shot of good whiskey to ease the pain.

On point "informed consent" does not disclose costs.

If you hear them "Let me check out just in case...." Ca Ching $$$$

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Touchy subject, I know. I am not giving an opinion for or against healthcare reform.

This post is purely intended as a discussion on the first state level reactions to the reform. Apparently both the state of Virginia and the state of Idaho are going to sue the federal gov arguing that mandated/forced purchase of healthcare violates the constitution's commerce clause. Apparently 30+ other states have said they would prepare some similar type of suit.

Also, apparently, never in the history of the U.S. until now has the U.S. government forced citizens to buy a product or a service.

It looks like it may get more interesting than it already has.

Any thoughts?

Chris L

Depends on this:

Supreme Court Justice Retiring? - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

Ideologically, I believe he's in the center.

In the upcoming November elections, even if the Republicans sweep everything (highly unlikely) they still won't have enough votes to repeal this bill. Most people will likely forget the drama and put all of their elected representatives back anyway. 2012? More time passed, less likely to vote any more out. Americans have short memories.

So, if Stevens does get replaced, it will most likely be some far left radical and there will obviously be no potential to swing over to the conservative side for any decision.....for a long time now it's been about stacking the court to an ideology and not about interpreting the Constitution. I don't know exactly what the process is if there is something to be tried on Constitutional grounds, however I assume it goes directly to the Supreme Court (and I'm hoping someone will step in and enlighten us about how that process works). How long will it take? It will take a long time.

I'm pretty sure the show's over.

Originally Posted by CableDawg

I'm pretty sure the show's over.

"Say goodnight Dick..."

I have to say, my mind is blown.

We pay for public education, for everyone. Even the delinquents who don't want to learn and drop out without their diploma. And even the people who homeschool their kids pay for it.

We pay for Social Security, for almost everyone. They only need to have worked for 5 years of their entire lives to qualify for the bottom line. And even the people who never cash in pay for it.

We pay for these things, even for the people who may not have earned it or wanted it, because the vast majority of individuals HAVE earned it and DO want it, and to deny them those things because they might not be rich enough to pay for it themselves is wrong.

If education is a right, and retirement benefit is a right, then why isn't a person's life a right? Someone actually said health care is a "privilege." Seriously?

I'm not really saying this bill is that good - I don't think it is. I don't think it's going to fix all our problems. But as others have said, either we do it this way, make it universal, continue to pay out of our pockets for uninsured people to rack up huge ER bills, or we just let people die.

Those are the choices. Personally I say go universal, but obviously our culture isn't ready for that. How sad. It's cheaper, and more effective. America spends 2-3 times more on health care than any country with universal health care, and we have one of the lowest life expectancies.

We cling to this "every man for himself" idea when it comes to health care, like people still think they're living in the Sahara being chased by lions.

Well, if it's every man for himself, then you have no right to public education. You have no right to Social Security. You have no right to be protected by the police force, or the military, or the fire brigade.

Every man for himself.

And the idea of long-term, possibly life-long indentured servitude that would dictate the lives of millions, and steal jobs from millions more, while leaving huge holes in skilled professions, instead of just manning up and helping out our own people? Are you serious?

What ever happened to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

In the modern age, where health care costs more than most normal people can afford, you can't run things like that unless you either want people to be slaves, or to die.

How dare people have the audacity to get sick. Is that what this is about?

And I'm tired of people complaining that those who can't get insurance are "lazy." Are you aware of what the minimum wage is? I've worked 60 hours a week and still barely been able to survive. Thank god I'm still young enough to be under my parent's plan.

And what about all the people with pre-existing conditions, who were basically told they can just go die? I have watched friends with life-long conditions trying to find a job in the depression.

But they aren't just looking for a job. They're in a race to save their own lives. Because if they don't have a job before their insurance expires, they're dead.

Some places in this country, right now, have 20% EMPLOYMENT. How many of those unemployed 4/5ths have a life-threatening illness and are currently writing their wills?

In a country where we have the capability to raise the standard of living for EVERYONE, to improve the quality of life and life span of EVERYONE, what sort of vicious greed would make someone say "no" to to that?

Everyone wants every kid in America to learn how to read. But no one wants to save their lives when they grow up and get sick because they're "lazy," working 9 hours a day and barely making it because the minimum wage still puts them below the poverty line.

My god. I need a cigarette.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

And I'm tired of people complaining that those who can't get insurance are "lazy." Are you aware of what the minimum wage is? I've worked 60 hours a week and still barely been able to survive. Thank god I'm still young enough to be under my parent's plan.

In a country where we have the capability to raise the standard of living for EVERYONE, to improve the quality of life and life span of EVERYONE, what sort of vicious greed would make someone say "no" to to that?

With your minimum wage job, and young enough to still be covered under your parents plan, how are you going to do your part to raise the standard of living for someone who earns 10 times your salary and pays for their own plan?

You would be wise to raise your own standard of living before preaching to the rest of us about how we should raise the standard of living for others.

To those of us who have worked hard for years and have finally achieved a comfortable standard of living, we resent the vicious greed of those who would try and take from us that which we have earned.

BTW - stop smoking! it's bad for your health and it kills brain cells.

Originally Posted by honedright

With your minimum wage job, and young enough to still be covered under your parents plan, how are you going to do your part to raise the standard of living for someone who earns 10 times your salary and pays for their own plan?

You would be wise to raise your own standard of living before preaching to the rest of us about how we should raise the standard of living for others.

To those of us who have worked hard for years and have finally achieved a comfortable standard of living, we resent the vicious greed of those who would try and take from us that which we have earned.

BTW - stop smoking! it's bad for your health and it kills brain cells.

You say that as though you think I worked a minimum wage job because I liked it.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of just sitting on my hands until something better comes through. This is a depression. Maybe you haven't noticed.

Once again, would you deny other people the ability to send their kids to public school, just because you can afford private education?

What about people who simply don't do work that makes them a ton of money. Like, for example, charities. Or artists. Or nurses. Or teachers.

Should we tell charity employees, artists, nurses, and teachers to get screwed because, since they don't make tons of money, they obviously don't mean anything?

Basically what you've just said is this: "When I was younger, society was less advanced, and we suffered for it. Therefore, I think every future generation should have to suffer, too."

I bet the adult generation that saw public education come to the US felt the same way.

P.S. If you stop saying stuff like we should enslave people for life for getting sick, I won't want to smoke as much.

It sure is interesting you want to tell me what to do, considering how big of a problem you seem to have with other people telling you what to do (I think it's more, you know, social responsibility, but however you wanna see it).

Originally Posted by CableDawg

I'm pretty sure the show's over.

I'd have to agree, politicians on both sides of the fence have been looking to maul or outright scrap the constitution for a while now.

@ The point of states reactions to the health-care bill:

I bet this will bring up more talk of succession.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Called and ambulance.... oh my.

Well a friend did not even break her arm.
No ride to the hospital, she finished her bike ride.... pavement rash and all
and then watched as +$15,000 in charges rolled in over the next six weeks.
She was lucky and had a good advocate and was also covered
as a member of the US Navy.

had a crash out in the desert.....took a 45min truck ride to the hospital walked in and sat down in the ER. 3 broken vert. and some craked ribs later they let me out and then the doc asked how did i manage to even walk in on my own...needless to say the bills started coming in and it totaled up to just over 12K and thats with no 45min ambulance ride
so i can see how everything adds up super fast

Originally Posted by honedright

With your minimum wage job, and young enough to still be covered under your parents plan, how are you going to do your part to raise the standard of living for someone who earns 10 times your salary and pays for their own plan?

You would be wise to raise your own standard of living before preaching to the rest of us about how we should raise the standard of living for others.

To those of us who have worked hard for years and have finally achieved a comfortable standard of living, we resent the vicious greed of those who would try and take from us that which we have earned.

BTW - stop smoking! it's bad for your health and it kills brain cells.

So it's all about salary and everything should be tiered according to wealth? I'm all for people being able to afford luxuries, but I do not think that health care is one of them. You focus on salary but I think the more key term is that she works which means she also contributes to the economy. Regardless of your salary you depend upon consumers at some level.

I think the opposition is more focused on the minority of people who will somehow take advantage of the system and consequently steal tax dollars, instead of the majority of decent, contributing citizens that this will benefit.