Thread: Health Care Reform; States suing as unconstitutional

Originally Posted by commiecat

So it's all about salary and everything should be tiered according to wealth? I'm all for people being able to afford luxuries, but I do not think that health care is one of them. You focus on salary but I think the more key term is that she works which means she also contributes to the economy. Regardless of your salary you depend upon consumers at some level.

I think the opposition is more focused on the minority of people who will somehow take advantage of the system and consequently steal tax dollars, instead of the majority of decent, contributing citizens that this will benefit.

everyone who has made a nice living for themselves thinks the rest of society is out to steal their wealth, in this case by standing cap in had asking for health care, strange then that some would rather they didnt have it. Who would fill the minimum wage jobs ?

Originally Posted by honedright

To those of us who have worked hard for years and have finally achieved a comfortable standard of living, we resent the vicious greed of those who would try and take from us that which we have earned.

BTW - stop smoking! it's bad for your health and it kills brain cells.

I have worked for years to achieve this comfort. I earn 10 times the minimum wage. I resent, more than just about anything, the vicious greed of those who would live in this comfort while millions of others who are not as blessed (or fortunate? With education, luck, intelligence?) as I have been to achieve what I have live a life without something that our country CAN afford. Healthcare is not a luxury in the modern world. I truly, deeply feel that it is the duty of any succesfull country to supply health care to its people. I have earned what I have, in part because of the greatness of this country. I had the opportunities to do so because of what my country did for my grandparents, parents, and me. Might I have to tighten my belt a tiny bit to ensure others basic rights? Sure. I already give 5 times the national average to causes I believe in. This is another one.


Is this bill perfect? Hell no...there are glaring omissions and still too much extra fat. Do I liek the way it was enacted, no....but I see it as the only way it was going to be enacted in this all or nothing political economy, where neither side will budge much, one side says "we want it all" and the other says NO to everything.

Mistress Nomad...I love your post, and yes, please stop smoking. But you already knew that.

To read through these things, you'd think that everyone in the country either makes minimum wage or is a corporate executive.

It's kind of funny.

As an aside, it's important to know what rights people DO (did?) have without this bill.

I have a close friend who works at the local hospital, and according to her, if you do not have/cannot afford health insurance you can just go to the ER for free, as your primary care physician. No co-pay, no expense whatsoever. A public hospital is not allowed to refuse treatment to someone if they cannot pay. Within the hospital they have a known list of "frequent flyers" who come in monthly or more often for "checkups", free of charge.
One of my own close friends had a $20,000 emergency surgery done (gall bladder removal or some such) and it cost him nothing, because he does not have health insurance.

My friend who works at the hospital has a $100 co-pay, and often has to wait 2+ weeks to see a doctor.

So those people who "have no health care" are actually getting ripped off by now being required to buy health insurance when before they could just go to the ER.

Maybe a bit off-topic but, just thought I'd throw this in...Kind of a humorous take on all of this is to consider that our representatives just passed a health bill written by a committee whose chairman at the time said he didn’t understand it; that was passed by Congress who hadn’t read it, but, exempted themselves from it; that was signed into law by a President who hadn’t read it either; with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes; with all to be overseen by an obese surgeon general; the entirety of which will be financed by a country that is now broke.

What could possibly go wrong??

Originally Posted by hardblues

Maybe a bit off-topic but, just thought I'd throw this in...Kind of a humorous take on all of this is to consider that our representatives just passed a health bill written by a committee whose chairman at the time said he didn’t understand it; that was passed by Congress who hadn’t read it, but, exempted themselves from it; that was signed into law by a President who hadn’t read it either; with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes; with all to be overseen by an obese surgeon general; the entirety of which will be financed by a country that is now broke.

What could possibly go wrong??

I raise.

"This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by the electricity generated by the public power monopoly which is regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on my TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service, part of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, determined what the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating a breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved vehicle and set out to work on roads built by the local, state and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out by the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at a public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads to a house which has not burned down in my absence, due to state and local building codes and a fire marshal's inspection. Fortunately none of my valuables were stolen thanks to the local police department.

I then hop on the Internet, developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, and post on the Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right."

This was originally on 4chan (quite shocking!) and I tidied up the grammar, so take that for what it's worth.

Originally Posted by honedright

To those of us who have worked hard for years and have finally achieved a comfortable standard of living, we resent the vicious greed of those who would try and take from us that which we have earned.

I have a comfortable standard of living and I don't resent people wanting universal healthcare.

So wanting universal healthcare is "vicious greed"?

And what is going to be taken away from you if others get healthcare?

I also never see you complain about all the money the US is spending on wars and the military. Plenty of cash right there to provide universal healthcare.

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

I have a comfortable standard of living and I don't resent people wanting universal healthcare.

So wanting universal healthcare is "vicious greed"?

And what is going to be taken away from you if others get healthcare?

I also never see you complain about all the money the US is spending on wars and the military. Plenty of cash right there to provide universal healthcare.

But the spending for the wars isn't going away. If anything it seems to be increasing, along with every other cost.

Originally Posted by bbshriver

As an aside, it's important to know what rights people DO (did?) have without this bill.

I have a close friend who works at the local hospital, and according to her, if you do not have/cannot afford health insurance you can just go to the ER for free, as your primary care physician. No co-pay, no expense whatsoever. A public hospital is not allowed to refuse treatment to someone if they cannot pay. Within the hospital they have a known list of "frequent flyers" who come in monthly or more often for "checkups", free of charge.
One of my own close friends had a $20,000 emergency surgery done (gall bladder removal or some such) and it cost him nothing, because he does not have health insurance.

My friend who works at the hospital has a $100 co-pay, and often has to wait 2+ weeks to see a doctor.

So those people who "have no health care" are actually getting ripped off by now being required to buy health insurance when before they could just go to the ER.

1) The ER is not for routine check-ups. That people without health insurance use them as such is not a good thing, but another example of a broken system that needs reform NOW.

2) That people without health care get "free" treatment on an emergency basis and then do not "have to" pay for it because they can not afford it is not a good thing, but another example of a broken system that needs reform NOW. The hospital then eats these bills, and passe them on to the other consumers of healthcare.

If I am not mistaken (which I may VERY well be), an ER has only the responsibility to ensure you do not have life threatening issues at the moment. Anythg else, they CAN refuse treatment. That they do not, I THINK is a decision they can make. The fact that a hospital has to make decisions like this is another example of a broken system that needs reform NOW.

3) Your good friend who had a $20,000 emergency surgery....he never got a bill? The hospital just decdied to pay for it out of the kindness of their hearts? I have never heard of that before. If he has any income or property, he could be sued for it. I don't recall the exact percetnage, but a staggeringly high percentage of the personal bankruptcies today are caused by people who have had their personal finances absoltuely decimated by lack of insurance/medical bills. That he got this surgery is wodnerful, I am glad he got this life-saving treatment. If he is eventuially bankrupted by it, I would sy that is probably a bad thing, and another example of a broken system that needs reform NOW.

Originally Posted by bbshriver

But the spending for the wars isn't going away. If anything it seems to be increasing, along with every other cost.

Well then I guess the US needs to decide if two pointless wars and our overly aggressive foreign policy is more important then providing its citizens with universal healthcare.

I think our money would be better spent trying to improve the lives of our citizens then invading other countries.