Thread: A question on Christian Scripture.

Originally Posted by kevint

Yes Paul. It seems to be rather clear that, according to the NT, there is one truth. The holy spirit is supposed to guide one to that truth, interpret scripture, and yet even today there is the same divisions within the Church. They say, yes minor disagreement is OK as long as we agree on the fundamental dogma- the Divinity of Christ. and some few other things I think.

It seems that much of the regular old teaching of the church largely defines itself by the existence of the others; non baptist; non believers; sinners etc. They do not seem to consider the unity and oneness of all life

The Holy Spirit guides those who seek it to the truth (not by direct operation but through the Gospel - Rom. 1:16).

Regarding unity, Jesus expected unity among believers but not with all life or mankind. In fact, he expected division within individual households (Luke 12:51-53). Those who weren't willing to choose him over their family were even deemed not worthy (Matt 10:37)

Originally Posted by richmondesi

The Holy Spirit guides those who seek it to the truth (not by direct operation but through the Gospel - Rom. 1:16).

Regarding unity, Jesus expected unity among believers but not with all life or mankind. In fact, he expected division within individual households (Luke 12:51-53). Those who weren't willing to choose him over their family were even deemed not worthy (Matt 10:37)

I have read Luke and did not quite know what to make of it. There are divisions that occur because of Christianity. Just think of that sometimes stereotypical preacher's daughter gone wild. I 'm just not sure what is the intention in those verses.

I do understand that is the way of the world, does that say to you we should strive for division?

(not finding Holy spirit in Rom 1:16)

Originally Posted by kevint

I have read Luke and did not quite know what to make of it. There are divisions that occur because of Christianity. Just think of that sometimes stereotypical preacher's daughter gone wild. I 'm just not sure what is the intention in those verses.

I do understand that is the way of the world, does that say to you we should strive for division?

(not finding Holy spirit in Rom 1:16)

Well, I'll apologize for not spelling it out. The HS is the revealer; that's a common theme throughout the NT (if you'd like I can point to several passages). He revealed the Gospel and that's what has the power for salvation (Rom. 1:16).

Do we strive for division? "Come out from among them, and be ye separate saith the Lord" (II Cor. 6:17)

Martian Luther was an ordained priest who called himself a Christian but didn't have saving faith. The HS came to him one day when he was reading the book of Romans and the Christian reformation was soon to be born.

John Wesley was a young man who had grown up in a Christian family of ministers and had gone to church all of his life. He went to divinity school and became a pastor and a missionary but he didn't have salvation. The HS came to him while he was at a bible study meeting listening to someone read the introduction to Martian Luther's commentary on the book of Romans. Wesley later wrote that he felt his heart strangely warmed.

My encounter came when I was 37 and having found out that the AA program was based on the sermon on the mount, the book of James, and the 13th chapter of first Corinthians I decided to read the bible for the first time in my life to try and prove to myself whether it was valid or not. One night the book of Romans did the same thing for me that it had done for Martian Luther and the HS came to me.

The bluegrass singing group, the Stanley Brothers recorded a song called "I Can Tell You The Time." It says, "I can tell you the time, I can take you to the place, where the Lord saved me, on that wonderful day." For me it was like that. It is a supernatural experience that cannot be accurately or scientifically described.

Looking for an explanation of what Christianity is as if one were learning how to hone or shave with a straight razor ..... i.e. what is the micron size, or grit rating and how many laps on the finishing stone ... is not applicable to the journey IME. If you open your mind to it and just read the book, pray daily and ask God to come to you, one of these days you will, like Paul the apostle, be able to say that you've experienced "the peace of God that passeth all understanding."

With all due respect, if the HS/God/Jesus (whatever) comes to someone and causes them to be saved in a supernatural sense, but doesn't do that to everyone, they are to blame for people not being saved. There's no way around that. Or all are going to be saved.

What I think happens is people have an epiphany about religion, but it's not the direct operation of the HS. If it is, John Calvin was right (which makes the Bible wrong), and all of this is just academic (of course some think it already is).

I remember it as like it was yesterday when the HS came into me. I don't remember the date, but it was an amazing experience. I remember that it actually gave me goosebumps and an unusual sense of calm of being. When someone asks me how I am doing & I reply "I am blessed", I mean it. I know it and feel it every day. Give it all to Him, everything, you will get it twofold back...

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Looking for an explanation of what Christianity is as if one were learning how to hone or shave with a straight razor ..... i.e. what is the micron size, or grit rating and how many laps on the finishing stone ... is not applicable to the journey IME. If you open your mind to it and just read the book, pray daily and ask God to come to you, one of these days you will, like Paul the apostle, be able to say that you've experienced "the peace of God that passeth all understanding."

I will not say that I did it exactly right. I did explain a little in my reply to Lee.
What actually seemed to happen to me was simply that I believed less with doing more . Since then I've read several of Joe Campbell's books, some on other religions, from other religions. (Not enough to be deeply knowledgeable but familiar enough.)

I wondered, maybe all I actually know about is popular Christianity what pop music is to real music. I do not want to sound condescending, or offend any of you but some things: the angry old man in the sky, physical human bodies going up into heaven, everlasting torment as a few examples, to me sound like stories for children.

Earlier I quoted a scripture "seek first the kingdom of God" and from another book "the kingdom of God is within" What does that have to do with another spirit entering our body or anything coming from outside us?

(I have had spiritual experiences, glimpses perhaps. I have the perception of something eternal, even though everything I see or know will eventually die or crumble to dust. That perception is impossible unless there is something eternal, just as we could not know yellow if everything were red.)

Within the confines of this thread at least You guys may push your agenda, share what you have discovered, show what you have uncovered as you see fit. Just that I did not see the point in arguing over which version or author was the most accurate, just as I wanted to focus on Christianity rather than wade into depths of comparative religious studies- though the common themes of various spiritual teaching would make for an interesting thread I am sure!

Earlier I only wished to convey that I do not have any preset plan to be revealed at the end after you have opened your hearts. (though it did seem necessary to reveal more about the "way it seems to me" more recently) If you are tired already we can stop or if I overlooked your pearl feel free to put it back up

However, I would like you to get into and consider exclusively the words of Jesus. His saying - sin no more- certainly struck me square between the eyes when I first read it many years ago.
I think I am better today than yesterday- I sure dont expect anything to be instantaneous, though I wont not deny that it must be possible.

Not too long ago there was a thread "who are you" I think.(?) I'll say almost everything, even though I'm slightly sure that it was everything, listed was a label, an identity in the world, a description of what we do, or how we act: I am this; I am that.

Having that same mind which is in Christ; shouldn't the correct answer be simply: I am?

Originally Posted by kevint

I would like you to get into and consider exclusively the words of Jesus. His saying - sin no more- certainly struck me square between the eyes when I first read it many years ago.
I think I am better today than yesterday- I sure dont expect anything to be instantaneous, though I wont not deny that it must be possible.

I think Jesus gave the answer just before he said, "go and sin no more." (Unless of course Jesus expected her to do something she could not, which I suppose is a cruel possibility or maybe he is trying to teach her something ) He said, "Woman, where are your accusers? Has no man condemned you?" She said, "No man, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you"

This is what I attempted to convey simply in my earlier reply: by grace she was saved from the fatal consequences of sin, and by grace she was freed from being bound to sin. By all rights she had been sentenced to death by the law God gave Moses for her adultery, but she was given an option she did not have before - to walk out of the situation with the power to sin no more. This is the power of the permanent change in you that forgiveness in the nature of Christ can effect. Whether you believe that or not (by grace through faith) will determine whether you will actually experience that change and the benefits of that change.

I think that saying of Jesus should hit anyone between the eyes the same way it did you if they have any intent to follow him. If I can trust him that because of what he did, there is no constant cloud of condemnation hovering over me, I can live out that kingdom of God within me (which he gave me when I accepted his offer of forgiveness)

I was zealous at one time and then drifted and went through a crisis of faith so to speak. I read Sam Harris and others, Bart Ehrman's books on the origins of the scriptures and problems with the translations. It was in another thread on this topic that I went back to my copy of the Reverend Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones preaching on the sermon on the mount that I posted the following quote. Mystery of the HS. Posting and re-reading that brought me back to the faith.

In his introduction to "Studies In The Sermon On The Mount" he starts out by saying that,"There is nothing more important in the Christian life than the way in which we approach the Bible and the way in which we read it. It is our textbook, it is our only source, it is our only authority. We know nothing about God and about the Christian life in a true sense apart from the Bible. We can draw various deductions from nature (and possibly from various mystical experiences) by which we can arrive at a belief in a supreme Creator. But I think it is agreed by most Christians and it has been traditional throughout the long history of the Church that we have no authority save this Book. We cannot rely solely upon subjective experiences because there are evil spirits as well as good spirits' there are counterfeit experiences. Here, in the Bible is our sole authority."