Thread: Here we go

Originally Posted by Bruno

Abortion?
This morning I've heard people say they're voting for Romney because Obama is not anti abortion.
Seriously!?!?

I may be missing something, but hasn't this argument been moot ever since Roe vs Wade?
Until such time (in the unlikely event that would ever happen) as the US supreme court decides to revisit that issue, noone's opinion, not even that of the President, matters.

If a president could have done something about abortion, George Bush would already have done it the second he took office. Despite all the other illegal stuff he did, even he didn't go there. So why on earth would anyone let that influence their decision?

Many people boil down to one issue. For many it is abortion, for some it is gun laws, and others are specific programs. With so many buzz words and tap dancing around committed answers, it is all most people can stomach to distill their choice down to one issue. Sad but true in many cases.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Is that based on anything real?

I remember last time in 2008 people said this as well, and it caused such an unbelievable run on ammo that there was a shortage on certain calibres for a long time. And in the end no such thing happened.

He specifically spoke about it during the debates.
While it's not 100% sure, he'd definitely be more inclined to do it in his second term when there is no repercussions in terms of reelections. Also switching two supreme court justices with anti gunners could potentially cause practically irreversible case law decisions for years and years to come.

I've hit the point where I'll vote for anything that has a basic grasp on capitalism and how it works. Our current choices in the U.S. are between crony capitalism or socialism and that does not make me a happy camper. I could really care less about all the nitpicking issues while the country is economically on fire so to speak. My entire generation has been burdened with 16 trillion in debt due to progressives like Bush and Obama spending recklessly. Things are so fouled up we may not see real prosperity for generations. No matter who wins we're in for some dark times in the U.S. The question is will we turn the car around or continue down our current path to the Weimar Republic.
I think the important election isn't really the presidential election but the elections in the house and senate. No matter who gets in we need to hold their feet to the fire and make them follow the constitution and support liberty and capitalism and its through the house and senate that we'll accomplish that. I really don't trust either candidate but one thing I suspect about Romney is that if we conservatives and libertarians capture the house and senate we can make Romney behave. Obama has a history of executive orders and its clear that the system of checks and balances cannot contain him but our RINO Romney I think will be weak enough that we can do something about him if he gets out of line.
This whole election is such a mess, the entire Democrat party has been captured by progressives and half the Republican party has been captured by progressives. So few care about liberty anymore, they would prefer the illusion of security.

Rant Off!

Nice rant Steelstubble as I mostly agree with you...so I take it you are voting for Romney?

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Nice rant Steelstubble as I mostly agree with you...so I take it you are voting for Romney?

Yes, I don't feel like I have a choice. I don't like how the Republicans give subsidies to big business but that is bearable compared to the alternative. Issues like abortion, firearms, illegal immigration and gay rights really don't matter if you can't afford food and shelter, so I'm voting with the economy. Everyone I know is struggling right now and some I know have been forced onto food stamps because there just aren't any jobs.

Originally Posted by Steelstubble

Issues like abortion, firearms, illegal immigration and gay rights really don't matter if you can't afford food and shelter

Really?
I don't think any of these things are on the same level. I've never heard of anyone protecting their life with marriage, and illegal immigration is in fact illegal. The issue of gun control is a question of constitutionally supported (and supreme court confirmed) individual right to self defense.

Besides, if the country were to deteriorate into a desperate state where there is a struggle to get shelter and food, I promise you'd soon find your self deprived of both without the ability to defend it.

In a perfect world I'd vote for Gary Johnson. Hopefully Rand Paul will run for president in 2016 assuming Romney doesn't win this election.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Abortion?
This morning I've heard people say they're voting for Romney because Obama is not anti abortion.
Seriously!?!?

I may be missing something, but hasn't this argument been moot ever since Roe vs Wade?
Until such time (in the unlikely event that would ever happen) as the US supreme court decides to revisit that issue, noone's opinion, not even that of the President, matters.

If a president could have done something about abortion, George Bush would already have done it the second he took office. Despite all the other illegal stuff he did, even he didn't go there. So why on earth would anyone let that influence their decision?

The thing with anti abortion voters is that they think if it's not legal anymore, then it'll go away.

It won't.

It wasn't legal before, and it was just underground, which meant anybody at all could do it if they wanted to claim to be able. We'd just go right back to that.
It was made legal because women were getting killed or permanently damaged. It was unsafe and risky because it was illegal and underground.

Making something illegal won't magically make it disappear. It's going to happen anyway, no matter what. Making it illegal only makes criminals out of everybody involved.

Starting to see Liberty, Socialism, Freedom, bandied about quite a bit. That's not what this election is about. I know you guys really want it to be...and for Bruce Willis to fly in and blow up the socialists with an American flag waving in the background...but it's not. It's between two moderates. Can we please not go down the path of conspiracy whack-job-dom

Originally Posted by Mats

Really?
I don't think any of these things are on the same level. I've never heard of anyone protecting their life with marriage, and illegal immigration is in fact illegal. The issue of gun control is a question of constitutionally supported (and supreme court confirmed) individual right to self defense.

Besides, if the country were to deteriorate into a desperate state where there is a struggle to get shelter and food, I promise you'd soon find your self deprived of both without the ability to defend it.

In a perfect world I'd vote for Gary Johnson. Hopefully Rand Paul will run for president in 2016 assuming Romney doesn't win this election.

I wasn't really thinking of an out right ban on them though in terms of the issues, but yes if we don't have them in a serious situation it won't matter if you can afford food or shelter, because someone better armed with take it from you. I was more thinking of standard restrictions on them getting stricter like they always do. I guess the right to bear arms argument doesn't effect me much because I live in a part of the U.S. where we basically don't have the right to bear arms, so if things get worse around the U.S. its harder for me to notice. Where I live there really isn't any way to get a CCW permit so we can own fire arms but not bear them, and wow do you get in trouble around here if you defend your home with one. Basically all we can do is hunt with them.
Illegal Immigration though is a huge issue for me on par with firearms because in MD its so severe and the authorities look the other way for the most part. So it really doesn't matter if illegal immigration is illegal because our local officials not only support sanctuary city policies but are trying to get them in state tuition which is actually on my local ballot. Not sure why giving them in state tuition to college would matter because its still illegal to hire them technically. I just threw abortion and gay marriage in there because those seem to be issues that are out in the front being argued about constantly.

Originally Posted by coachschaller

Many people boil down to one issue. For many it is abortion, for some it is gun laws, and others are specific programs. With so many buzz words and tap dancing around committed answers, it is all most people can stomach to distill their choice down to one issue. Sad but true in many cases.

I had this discussion with someone else this week who was voting for Obama because she feels strongly about her “right” to have an abortion and gay marriage. I simply asked her if she was pregnant or anticipated being carelessly pregnant in the near future. Her answer was no. Then I asked if she was gay and wanted to marry another woman. Again, no. So I went on to point out that these two issues, though important to her, are not exactly affecting her life right now. But issues of the economy, health care, immigration, and so many other things actually ARE affecting her life. When I pointed out that she is willing to sacrifice those issues for the theoretical ones that actually don’t affect her, she started to come around to a potentially different point of view. And lets face it, abortion isn’t going anywhere in spite of what either side thinks. IF….IF the Supreme Court overturned Roe, what would really happen? Would it suddenly become illegal or would it go back to the states for them to decide? I live in IL, one of the most liberal states there is. There’s no way that its going to be illegal here. Abortion is a diversion tactic. Its meant to keep you from analyzing the rest of the terrain and coming up with logical conclusions. The best thing the right could do is drop this as an issue and take this out of the national debate.