Thread: The New Republic of Texas?

Originally Posted by commiecat

I think you're misinformed about Americans on this. All of our generations have seen this country involved in a war in some capacity and I'd wager that if you polled the general public, the overwhelming majority would be within one degree of someone who has served in our military. I think society as a whole has become jaded by war, particularly with so much information available now, but I certainly don't think that Americans are any different than anyone else who isn't in an active war zone.

Yes. The US have been involved with war. But the US has not BEEN a war zone for a long time.
Sending out soldiers to kill is one thing. Having most of the population living for years in a war zone, in poverty, with death and destruction next to you is quite another.

That's why I prefaced my statement with "I'm no history buff". I try to not make unfounded statements and stick by them, so I stand corrected. Though, I would argue that my real point still stands...

"...haven't had a real war on U.S. soil since the Civil War."

From wikipedia.org:
"On May 11, 1943, the operation to recapture Attu began. A shortage of landing craft, unsuitable beaches, and equipment that failed to operate in the appalling weather caused great difficulties in projecting any force against the Japanese. Many soldiers suffered from frostbite – because essential supplies could not be landed, or having been landed, could not be moved to where they were needed. Army vehicles would not work on the tundra. The Japanese defenders under Colonel Yasuyo Yamasaki did not contest the landings, but rather they dug in on high ground away from the shore. This resulted in bloody fighting: there were 3,929 U.S. casualties: 580 were killed, 1,148 were injured, 1,200 had severe cold injuries, 614 succumbed to infectious diseases, and 318 died of miscellaneous causes – largely from Japanese booby traps and from friendly fire. The Japanese were defeated in Massacre Valley (with some soldiers led by Sergeant Morgan Sinclair[citation needed]). The death count for the Japanese was 2,035. The Americans then built "Navy Town" near Massacre Bay.
On May 29, the last of the Japanese forces suddenly attacked near Massacre Bay in one of the largest banzai charges of the Pacific campaign. The charge, led by Colonel Yamasaki, penetrated U.S. lines far enough to encounter shocked rear-echelon units of the American force. After furious, brutal, close-quarter, and often hand-to-hand combat, the Japanese force was killed almost to the last man: only 28 prisoners were taken, none of them officers. U.S. burial teams counted 2,351 Japanese dead, but it was presumed that hundreds more had been buried by naval, air, and artillery bombardments over the course of the battle.
The other Japanese forces in the Aleutians, after realizing that their position was now vulnerable, evacuated Kiska three months later."

3929 U.S. casualties. 2035 Japanese casualties. Unknown civilian casualties. Sounds like a real war to me.
And how would an accountant qualify a "real war"? Is it based on the number of lives disrupted/lost? Is it a question of the amount of ordnance expended? Or how many buildings were destroyed?

I would classify it as the main place of a war. I say real war because I admitted there have been isolated battles/incidents; my intention was to highlight the fact the US hasn't been the primary location for a full-scale, long-term engagement with a foreign enemy. Although I may be wrong there again..

Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes. The US have been involved with war. But the US has not BEEN a war zone for a long time.
Sending out soldiers to kill is one thing. Having most of the population living for years in a war zone, in poverty, with death and destruction next to you is quite another.

My point was that I believe a good portion of our population is within a degree of someone who has experienced this first hand; location isn't relevant to their experiences. I have not lived it, but I certainly understand it enough.

Understood that we have not been occupied, but we've dealt with poverty, death, and destruction in other capacities. I'm grateful to have never been involved in a war directly but I think it's a bit dismissive to say that Americans consider war an intangible thing that happens to other people.

Well if we are going to get distracted and talk about Hawaii, then lets go full circle and talk about their desire secede. I hear there has been a large movement there for a while!

"War is the extension of politics by other means."
-von Clausewitz

My father is a Juno Beach veteran (4th Special Service Brigade Commando) and retired history professor. He defined war as "people with guns trying to kill you." Succinct and accurate.
I'll go with his definition every time.

Actually during WWll Japan did "invade" our mainland. They sent balloons with explosives which mostly didn't go off and the ones that did exploded in the wilderness. There was one documented incident of one going off during a baseball game and it injured some folks. This was a really closely held secret. The Govt didn't want to panic anyone.

I did know that; that's actually the reason Smokey Bear was created by the Ad Council on 1947...an attempt to get the public looking for fires.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Actually during WWll Japan did "invade" our mainland. They sent balloons with explosives which mostly didn't go off and the ones that did exploded in the wilderness. There was one documented incident of one going off during a baseball game and it injured some folks. This was a really closely held secret. The Govt didn't want to panic anyone.

You are right, a strike on the mainland & citizens died.

"The only known fatalities on the United States mainland from enemy attack during World War II came on 5 May 1945 ten miles northeast of Bly, Oregon, when five children and one woman were killed from the blast of a bomb that had been carried by a balloon. The cause of the tragedy was verified by forest men who said it appeared that the victims had clustered around the balloon and someone curiously tugged it enough to detonate one of the bombs carried underneath. The only publicity permitted on the incident at the time was that an unidentified object had exploded, killing six people."

The Great Japanese Balloon Offensive

..........now how about that Texas succession?? In the OP.