Thread: Assault weopen carnage agian?

Left the house today about 3:45 after the Presidents speech: I knew this would come up on SRP, but I hoped the thread would wait until the victims were put to rest.

My son, 15 years old, listened to the radio, as we drove to a friends house who also has boys of the same age. Both of our homes have firearms.

So many mixed feelings about this type of carnage, I don't know what to write about or say.

I know that a person or kid of sound mind, does not wake up on a beautiful morning, stretch his arms, eat his breakfast the head to the school/mall to kill. There had to be warning signs, indicators for quite some time that this person wasn't running on all cylinders. Obviously no one took the time or knew what to look for. I have noticed, most of my adult life, that people just "walk on by" so to speak. I wish I could say in words what I believe to be a root cause of behavior like this, but I'm truly not educated, my own fault.

I ask my son each day/everyday I pick him up from school, any problems of any kind at school today?, did you have a good day?, what did you eat for lunch?, do you have homework tonight? These for questions are asked everyday, without fail. Does this make me a great parent?, No it does not, but it allows me to head off problems that could get out of hand. People must take the time to get involved.

I took a trip in early summer to my mother's house in Georgia, large acreage for hunting/shooting on her property.
I picked up my nephew from his father, so he could spend the week with my son, both are the same age. My mother wanted to spend some time with both of her grandsons. I had weapons in my vehicle to spend some range time with my son. A Bulgarian AK, shotgun & handguns. My son shots trap on Monday nights with other youths in a County wide program. He has very basic handgun skills. My brother-in-law asked if I could include his son in the shooting lessons at my mothers. I said yes.

The night before, I'm in the livingroom with the family, my nephew (15 years) in on the computer. He is conversing with a man of 25 years , who face is on the screen. The man is on video & you can hear him talking, with my nephew. My nephew just types back his responses, he has no video. Both are members of some type of military video game, where a lot of people can play all at one time, from all over the world. A very graphic realistic game. {We don't have video games at my house, I have never allowed them.} They start talking about "Head Shots", the adult says , "You get a good head shot & the guy will piss his pants as he dies." I stood up and asked my nephew, "WTF did he just say? Who is this guy?" I made him turn the computer off.

I canceled the firearm training that following day & the rest of the summer. I wasn't about to give my nephew shooting skills with an AK or any other weapon. I told my sister about the man on the computer & my concerns about how much time he spent on it with grown men, discussing such topics. I was politly told to go F myself.
I'm not blaming a video game for anything, but this was a case of a parent not engaged in their kids daily activities.

If it would bring back just 1 of those kids lives, you can have all my guns. I don't love them, more than I love the life of an innocent child. I can protect my family with other means. But I do know that a committed mind will find a method to kill & that it is totally imposible to get rid of all firearms.

I don't know what the answer is.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Left the house today about 3:45 after the Presidents speech: I knew this would come up on SRP, but I hoped the thread would wait until the victims were put to rest.

My son, 15 years old, listened to the radio, as we drove to a friends house who also has boys of the same age. Both of our homes have firearms.

So many mixed feelings about this type of carnage, I don't know what to write about or say.

I know that a person or kid of sound mind, does not wake up on a beautiful morning, stretch his arms, eat his breakfast the head to the school/mall to kill. There had to be warning signs, indicators for quite some time that this person wasn't running on all cylinders. Obviously no one took the time or knew what to look for. I have noticed, most of my adult life, that people just "walk on by" so to speak. I wish I could say in words what I believe to be a root cause of behavior like this, but I'm truly not educated, my own fault.

I ask my son each day/everyday I pick him up from school, any problems of any kind at school today?, did you have a good day?, what did you eat for lunch?, do you have homework tonight? These for questions are asked everyday, without fail. Does this make me a great parent?, No it does not, but it allows me to head off problems that could get out of hand. People must take the time to get involved.

I took a trip in early summer to my mother's house in Georgia, large acreage for hunting/shooting on her property.
I picked up my nephew from his father, so he could spend the week with my son, both are the same age. My mother wanted to spend some time with both of her grandsons. I had weapons in my vehicle to spend some range time with my son. A Bulgarian AK, shotgun & handguns. My son shots trap on Monday nights with other youths in a County wide program. He has very basic handgun skills. My brother-in-law asked if I could include his son in the shooting lessons at my mothers. I said yes.

The night before, I'm in the livingroom with the family, my nephew (15 years) in on the computer. He is conversing with a man of 25 years , who face is on the screen. The man is on video & you can hear him talking, with my nephew. My nephew just types back his responses, he has no video. Both are members of some type of military video game, where a lot of people can play all at one time, from all over the world. A very graphic realistic game. {We don't have video games at my house, I have never allowed them.} They start talking about "Head Shots", the adult says , "You get a good head shot & the guy will piss his pants as he dies." I stood up and asked my nephew, "WTF did he just say? Who is this guy?" I made him turn the computer off.

When I heard the man say this , my mind flashed back to the summer of 1988 when Freddy Andrade shot my partner Scotty in the head with a 25 cal. as Scotty chased him across an open yard. Scotty's head swelled to the size of a basketball & he wet himself as he died. I canceled the firearm training that following day & the rest of the summer. I wasn't about to give my nephew shooting skills with an AK or any other weapon. I told my sister about the man on the computer & my concerns about how much time he spent on it with grown men, discussing such topics. I was politly told to go F myself.
I'm not blaming a video game for anything, but this was a case of a parent not engaged in their kids daily activities.

If it would bring back just 1 of those kids lives, you can have all my guns. I don't love them, more than I love the life of an innocent child. I can protect my family with other means. But I do know that a committed mind will find a method to kill & that it is totally imposible to get rid of all firearms.

I don't know what the answer is.

very good post ... in one of my post earlier i had mentioned how i dont understand that im the only parent at my kids sports practices and how a parent/child seem to be distant in these days

Funny you mention that, about three weeks ago my son was trying out for the school soccer team, the tryouts lasted 8 days. Only two parents were there. Me & another guy. There were 40+ kids trying out for the team. Yes, I know parents have to work, but a sad statement still.

The problem isn't MSNBC (or Fox for that matter).

It's not pertinent that the press doesn't get the facts straight right away or that they generally don't have any specific knowledge in the technical aspects of the stories they cover.

There is nothing new here. It's the same with flying, boating, scuba accidents and most news stories in general.

It's annoying but so what it's not the issue at stake here.

It's also true that there are usually plenty of gun laws being broken most anytime a gun is used in any crime.

Again, that's not the point and it certainly isn't an original point.

The fact remains that in China today (as was brought up earlier) a crazy man managed to injure 22 (I think) children in a school.

A crazy man here was able to kill 22-28 or whatever the final tally turn out to be.

It's just easier here. Yes, it can be done in Norway too but it isn't done as much. The one time it was done was rare enough to get a mention in this thread.

The discussion isn't (or shouldn't be) simply to pass more gun laws nor should it be to rule out passing any laws (of any type) if shown to reduce this kind of crime.

To do that there have to be open minds involved in the discussion rather than strawman arguments or decisions soley based on unchanging beliefs rather than ever changing facts.

If there were more guns among law abiding citizens statistics would probably show that more than 22 children/year would be accidentally killed,

Just as more boats among law abiding citizens would show more accidental drowning.

My point is that there isn't a simple solution but arming all teachers, or banning all guns isn't likely to be the ultimate "best" solution.

Thinking decision makers rather than knee-jerk decision makers (on whatever side of the issue) is the only solution (to any problem).

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Funny you mention that, about three weeks ago my son was trying out for the school soccer team, the tryouts lasted 8 days. Only two parents were there. Me & another guy. There were 40+ kids trying out for the team. Yes, I know parents have to work, but a sad statement still.

its like sports is just for some parents that can make it but dont to have there free time or in my kids ages a baby sitting service

Hirlau, for an 'uneducated' man, you sure as $h!t say some intelligent things!


Mick

As an outsider, and allowing myself the freedom of this open forum, so to speak, I cannot even fathom why people would even argue about gun control. There's a lot of evil people out there, with a lot of ways to kill, but I have some sort of peace that generally it's not all that easy for them to rock up at my kid's school with a firearm. I used to like guns, but I can live without them. I just can't understand how MUCH some people seem to like guns. I just don't get it. I was wondering how long it'd take for the 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' line to be trotted out. No disrespect, but seriously, how MUCH do you guys over there in the USA like guns????

Of course I realise I'm opening myself up to the wrath of whomever, but I'm a big boy, I can take it...

Oh, BTW, I for one don't need FACTS, F**k facts, I need the general gist and the general gist makes me sick. Who gives a toss what calibre is was, I'm sure the parents don't.

[EDIT] Oh, BTW, I hope the Mayan calendar thing is right, it's about time...

Carl, I think if we had the rights as the US do,with regard to firearm ownership, then it might be a different way of thinking for you. We don't have any rights, except to the right of silence after we break one of the multitude of our increasing laws (Like the associating with biker crims laws etc, even if we're innocent)...Generally I'm with you all the way on that. I like my guns, but they are just tools to me.


Mick

THE ANSWER that seems to elude the grief-addled is to NOT fall for the usual political rhetoric, and start looking for real-world solutions that can actually work. Some of the most liberal-leftists I talked to today can agree that the sorry lack of reasonable security at schools is directly related to mismanagement of our tax dollars. If we must have expensive federal agencies like Department of Education and Department of Homeland Security, then this is their charge. There are any number of technological and personnel improvements that are PROVEN to improve security and practically eliminate the possibility that a 20yr old nut-job can just walk into an elementary school unchallenged by somebody who is responsibly armed and ready to respond. Beyond that, designated teachers or Principle staff can be trained and authorized to respond. LOTS of options here, if we can just get past the usual media barrage and political rhetoric.

UNDERSTAND that the politicians want to twist this into something they can benefit from, politically. That's all "gun control" ever is or was. It doesn't work and never has, but it lets the politicians off the hook, whether their new "ban" gets passed or not. DO NOT give them the EASY OUT. Demand better solutions that are necessarily more complex, not these simplistic, feel-good bans and registration schemes that only serve to WASTE tax dollars, WASTE lives, and WASTE the time we have to come to grips with the reality of today. Texting and driving kills more people now, and laws are in place, but we have to COPE with this new technology, and understand that technology never moves backward just because another law gets passed.

Children are raised now with cell phones, tablets, internet kooks and a sensationalist media that NEVER gets the facts straight. They have to learn to cope with all that and they have to learn to cope with guns, too, and the best way to do that is education and awareness, just like anything else. The comfort of skill at arms and an understanding of safe handling gets rid of all the irrational fears that the media and the politicians love to prey upon. A more savvy next-generation of adults who understand what guns can and can't do will not so easily be fear-mongered into supporting the wasteful gun-ban lip-service laws, and demand better results from the triple-taxes these kids will have to pay when they are adults.

Stop punishing the law-abiding, stop blaming inanimate objects and start training the kids to jealously guard their rights and freedoms by identifying and dealing with criminals swiftly. Teach them to develop and implement in-depth, multi-layer security models that are more effective, less personally-intrusive and well-integrated into the sorts of institutions like schools and other public congregations of people that are currently victimized as target-rich environments. Develop a culture that DESIRES control of its own destiny, as free individuals who are well-educated, well-informed, and well-trained to deal with any disaster or threat, instead of the current culture of "sheeple".

Originally Posted by MickR

Carl, I think if we had the rights as the US do,with regard to firearm ownership, then it might be a different way of thinking for you. We don't have any rights, except to the right of silence after we break one of the multitude of our increasing laws (Like the associating with biker crims laws etc, even if we're innocent)...Generally I'm with you all the way on that. I like my guns, but they are just tools to me.


Mick

Yeah, Mick, and I do agree about the Biker laws, there's a line and they have crossed it with that one. I just wish for a more loving, safer community for all. Of course I'm simply stating my opinion, and I'm not that arrogant to think I'm always right. In fact, generally, I'm often wrong... I just hate the idea that kids are killed, and i hate the idea that killers can be given an easy way to do it. I know those who want to will find a way, but I'm prepared to give up some tools to make it easy for them...

[ANOTHER EDIT] Also, I like the fact that two guys who I have a bunch of respect for on this forum (Mick and Birnando) 'liked' my post. Thanks. I think it's important to let people know I truly respect them...