Thread: Potential Ban/Brady Bill part deux?

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."
George Mason

"What, sir is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. Whenever governments mean to invade the rights andf liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."

Elbridge Gerry

Evidently the militia is different than the governments army and it is composed of the free people. Our fore fathers never intended for us to maintain a large standing army such as we have since WWII. They saw such such a thing as a threat, they also saw an armed populace as a solution to that threat. Historically militias payed their own way, bought their own weapons, powder and ball, uniforms as well if they had the money to do so, and were not a government entity. The ultimate commander of these militias were the governors of their respective states.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

I disagree.. As long as someone is a licensed gun owner, he should have the right to purchase arms without involving the government or the business community.

That would be great between licensed gun owners, however, the problem, as it is right now, I can sell me legally purchase gun to my neighbor across the street (not a licensed gun owner), and I'm not required to do a back ground check on him. That is a loophole criminals use to obtain guns. I believe this is easily closed by requiring the seller (responsible) to do the same background check as the stores do on you. Double O

Something old has come to light.

"The Dick Act of 1902 also known as the Efficiency of Militia Bill H.R. 11654, of June 28, 1902 invalidates all so-called gun-control laws. It also divides the militia into three distinct and separate entities."
Although the language of the full House Resolution 11654 has been deleted from government websites, it's referenced on the Library Of Congress's page. (*1) It's reported at multiple other websites that the HR (*2),(*3)language is as follows:
"The three classes H.R. 11654 provides for are the organized militia, henceforth known as the National Guard of the State, Territory and District of Columbia, the unorganized militia and the regular army."
"The militia encompasses every able-bodied male between the ages of 18 and 45. All members of the unorganized militia have the absolute personal right and 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms of any type, and as many as they can afford to buy."
"The Dick Act of 1902 cannot be repealed; to do so would violate bills of attainder and ex post facto laws which would be yet another gross violation of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights."
While some cite the passage date of HR 11654 as June 28, 1902, others state January 1903.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Originally Posted by Double0757

That would be great between licensed gun owners, however, the problem, as it is right now, I can sell me legally purchase gun to my neighbor across the street (not a licensed gun owner), and I'm not required to do a back ground check on him. That is a loophole criminals use to obtain guns. I believe this is easily closed by requiring the seller (responsible) to do the same background check as the stores do on you. Double O

We don't have a requirement to inspect another person's gun license or to run a background check - our gangbangers still prefer illegal imports from the US or China. We do it out of social conscience. With that being said, I didn't have to produce my PAL (Possession and Acquisition Licence) to buy my 2nd SKS - it was a straight cash for rifle exchange. I should note down the serial for insurance purposes To quiet the antis, the exchange happened at a members only range and I was shooting the breeze with 2 of the directors so he had a pretty good idea I was licensed to own a firearm. For handguns, SBR's and AR's, the transfer goes through the RCMP (our version of the FBI), so they do a licence validity check. I am against that because in some provinces the process can go for weeks, often over a month. I think it's a couple of weeks in Ontario (that's how long it took for my transfer to be approved while buying from a retailer), about 6 weeks in British Columbia and same or next day in Alberta.

Originally Posted by Wullie

Been on the phone off and on all day looking for a decent qty of 7.62X51 BALL. It's out there, but prices have DOUBLED in the last week! Stopped by one of the smaller gun shops here in town, ( one that doesn't have a pissy attitude ) and they sold all their AR/AK stuff yesterday. Couldn't let 4 of them out the door because the FBI's lines were tied up and hold times were over an hour!

He mentioned stripped lowers at $550 in Greenville. Bolt carriers for $1K!!

THe perfect storm is brewing pertaining to gun sales with all the BS about THE END OF THE WORLD and the BS spewing from the lefttard media and DC about gun control.

I told one snotty SOB at ELK CASTLE ARMS that they better enjoy what's happening now, because when this blows over, they'll be begging all the folks they've pissed off to come back to give 'em another chance. Same with CHEAPER THAN DIRTBAGS.

FYI...
I just bought some 7.62x51 from Ammunition to Go. Priced about 37per hundred.

They still have some, but 5.56 is either nonexistent or $1+ a round...As Mike Tyson would say, "this is ludicrous."

Originally Posted by jmcamp54

FYI...
I just bought some 7.62x51 from Ammunition to Go. Priced about 37per hundred.

They still have some, but 5.56 is either nonexistent or $1+ a round...As Mike Tyson would say, "this is ludicrous."

Steel case, Berdan primed? Or good reloadable stuff?

Nothing like that listed on their website. Cheapest I saw was about $37 for 50.

Gents,
I am not sure that fire arms are the main issue here, I have asked the question of a few shooting mates of mine in the US as to why you have school shootings. We have not had them here Down Under as yet, we have a population of about 22 million, of which a million of us have firearms, so we have a pretty good ratio of ownership close to you guys. We do have pretty thorough background checks done when you first get licenced, and you have to provide a "valid " reason for requiring a firearm. There is also a pretty stringent gun safe requirement re storage. As a shooter I feel like most of my shooting brothers that the Govt is only a hairs breadth away from disarming us, as ownership here is a privilege not a right.
For all our restrictions, there is still no certainty we will not have a shooting incident at a school at some time.
My question is about how does American society deal with its mentally unstable individuals?
Our own government pretty much ignores mental health, I guess because at this stage the cure rate is pretty low and it will be years before some of the major mental illnesses can be cured or managed properly. Hence we would like to ignore it as it may have no short term political gain.
I see the shooting of some firemen latterly by a nut job recently let out of Gaol, how did he aquire arms? No garantee an Aussie style arms control legistaltion would have stopped that, has you can get them on the black market.
Sorry you blokes, you are in for a rough ride, and really sorry for the families and victims of these latest shootings


Best wishes

heelerau

The nut jobs are pretty much left to their own devices UNTIL they hurt themselves or someone else.

As for the ex-con getting a gun. Hell, he probably just went out and bought it. For a long time that stupid paperwork that had to be filled out and signed was never checked. Falsification of information on the form is a felony, but nobody was checking. Nowadays they do a FBI "background" check to see if a buyer is listed anywhere as a felon or nut case.

Or he could have purchased the guns from an individual or stolen them for that matter. I doubt we'll ever get the truth from our media about how he acquired the guns.

Originally Posted by heelerau

Gents,

My question is about how does American society deal with its mentally unstable individuals?

They just write them another prescription and send them on their way!

Originally Posted by heelerau

Gents,
I am not sure that fire arms are the main issue here, I have asked the question of a few shooting mates of mine in the US as to why you have school shootings. We have not had them here Down Under as yet, we have a population of about 22 million, of which a million of us have firearms, so we have a pretty good ratio of ownership close to you guys. We do have pretty thorough background checks done when you first get licenced, and you have to provide a "valid " reason for requiring a firearm. There is also a pretty stringent gun safe requirement re storage. As a shooter I feel like most of my shooting brothers that the Govt is only a hairs breadth away from disarming us, as ownership here is a privilege not a right.
For all our restrictions, there is still no certainty we will not have a shooting incident at a school at some time.
My question is about how does American society deal with its mentally unstable individuals?
Our own government pretty much ignores mental health, I guess because at this stage the cure rate is pretty low and it will be years before some of the major mental illnesses can be cured or managed properly. Hence we would like to ignore it as it may have no short term political gain.
I see the shooting of some firemen latterly by a nut job recently let out of Gaol, how did he aquire arms? No garantee an Aussie style arms control legistaltion would have stopped that, has you can get them on the black market.
Sorry you blokes, you are in for a rough ride, and really sorry for the families and victims of these latest shootings


Best wishes

heelerau

This is sort of interesting. I had to check our statistics.
In a country with a population of about 5,5 million we have about 1,6 million legal guns (including rifles) and about 600 000 legal gun owners. That is pretty much. And estimated number of illegal guns is about 800 000 (i have no idea how it is possible to count illegal guns). However, these illegals aren't illegally imported and used by criminals but mostly spoils of war.

Although crime rates are low still hand guns are used only less than 5% of all homicides*, and less than 1% of any burglary, street robbery or so. Guns are not known to have used to protect homes or safety in case of a burglar or attacker. I hope it will stay that way; all crime rates have gone downwards during the last decades.
*'less than 5% of all homicides' is actually wrong. The real % might be lower: 5% of all homicides the killer is a licensed gun owner. % does not tell what weapon was used in the homicides: might be knife or bare hands as well.
However: the low numbers only tell that legal gun owners make less crimes than those who do not own a gun. of course every single case is too much and with a single gun you can make much worse damage than with the knife.

It is still somewhat easy to get a license for hunting rifle and not too difficult for 22. But getting a license for a heavy calibers these days is very difficult. You need to have it for your work and even then it might be difficult: in such cases your employer (police/military/border guard) will issue you a gun so you do not need the one of your own.
I know cases where police force members didn't get a license for a personal hand gun. You already have one at work, they were told.

Background check is always made by police, no individual gun seller. While back year ago i got my licenses for rifle and 9mm the check took about a week. Nowadays much longer. Also to get a gun of any kind nowadays you need to be a registered member of any shooting club and also to pass an interview with a doctor specialized in mental problems.

In any case, mental problems are taken very seriously these days. Even recruiting army isn't any walk in the park these days, about 30% of all rookies drop off during first weeks.