Thread: The Shave Den

Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Lynn,
I'm sorry. I didn't mean SRP has sent messages, simply that the default for administrator delivered notifications is set to YES by default here as on most groups. We manually must choose NO if we didn't want to receive anything.

So, if we did send e-mails as Shave Den did everyone here who did not change their default setting would automatically get these mails just as you did from SD.

Most groups seem to default that way so members don't miss important news. Luckily we don't randomly send off mails as they did.

Tony

You would be correct Tony. I checked and we are not and have never sent out this kind of email.

Lynn

Gentleman, it was never my intention to be an annoyance. This is a 100% automatically generated email that is sent to users based on their length of inactivity. Emails like this are a part of the world we live in. My real world employer sends them, and i'd imagine most of yours do too.

I care greatly about all of the members of my site, and I spend hours everyday thinking of ways I can improve their experience. I believe my goal is the same as yours, to show people there is something else out there than a cartridge razor and can of foam, all while in a friendly atmosphere. I send emails like this because they work. I can't count how many times I've forgotten the name of a website, or a forum I liked in passing, (I spend a lot of time on the net). The more users a forum has, the more information and experiences it has to share. In hindsight I wish I had included a way at the bottom to opt out of emails like this, but it does come from my email, so any response would have came back to me anyway. Up until now, I have never received a complaint about this email system.

I took the liberty of scanning through this thread, pulling out the user names that were unhappy with this feature, and disabling the mentioned emails. The users I found are listed below:
adjustme69
scarface
ucliker

On a side note, why does there have to be such animosity amongst the shaving forums? Threads like this seem to do nothing more than make the world upset. We might all have a different house, but we live in the same neighborhood.

-Sparky5693 (TSD Admin)

Originally Posted by sparky5693

Gentleman, it was never my intention to be an annoyance. This is a 100% automatically generated email that is sent to users based on their length of inactivity. Emails like this are a part of the world we live in. My real world employer sends them, and i'd imagine most of yours do too.

I care greatly about all of the members of my site, and I spend hours everyday thinking of ways I can improve their experience. I believe my goal is the same as yours, to show people there is something else out there than a cartridge razor and can of foam, all while in a friendly atmosphere. I send emails like this because they work. I can't count how many times I've forgotten the name of a website, or a forum I liked in passing, (I spend a lot of time on the net). The more users a forum has, the more information and experiences it has to share. In hindsight I wish I had included a way at the bottom to opt out of emails like this, but it does come from my email, so any response would have came back to me anyway. Up until now, I have never received a complaint about this email system.

I took the liberty of scanning through this thread, pulling out the user names that were unhappy with this feature, and disabling the mentioned emails. The users I found are listed below:
adjustme69
scarface
ucliker

On a side note, why does there have to be such animosity amongst the shaving forums? Threads like this seem to do nothing more than make the world upset. We might all have a different house, but we live in the same neighborhood.

-Sparky5693 (TSD Admin)

for me it has nothing to do with liking that forum or hating this forum, it has more to do with common courtesy!
whether it's the world we live in or not has nothing to do with it! it is better, in my opinion, that all businesses, and the like, assume that people would rather not have their privacy and space violated and let the individual say yes this is OK, than assume its perfectly OK too send anyone any sort of solicitation And force the individual to tell the other party to knock it off !

Has common sense and common courtesy gone out the window!

Actually, common sense and common courtesy are alive and well. Otherwise, the above post from Sparky5693 would never have been posted. We realize that there are members here and at TSD, or those who have multiple memberships/identities around the wet shaving world. The sole purpose of the email system in question was just to serve as a reminder to those have already voluntarily signed up as members of TSD that we have not seen them in a while and value their membership.

I also think it is a sign of courtesy on the part of the administrator at TSD to personally attend to this matter and answer your questions on this forum.

As a matter of full disclosure, I am also a moderator at TSD.

Best regards, Blair Hinson, AKA PalmettoB

What good is a thread like this you ask? Lots.

First it teaches us that we should actually read what we are agreeing to when we sign up for something.

Second, that some organizations actully send emails to their inactive visitors

Lastly, that there is such a site as "the shave den"... i lead a dull and sheltered life... i'm a member of SMF and B&B, although, i spend nearly all my time here.

even though there are getting to be more frequent breaches of decorum and civility here, it is considerably politer then some of the things i see elsewhere. So now knowing there is at least a fourth shaving forum could be a good thing.

Knowledge, like truth is neither good or bad, it just is.

Originally Posted by PalmettoB

Actually, common sense and common courtesy are alive and well. Otherwise, the above post from Sparky5693 would never have been posted. We realize that there are members here and at TSD, or those who have multiple memberships/identities around the wet shaving world. The sole purpose of the email system in question was just to serve as a reminder to those have already voluntarily signed up as members of TSD that we have not seen them in a while and value their membership.

I also think it is a sign of courtesy on the part of the administrator at TSD to personally attend to this matter and answer your questions on this forum.

As a matter of full disclosure, I am also a moderator at TSD.

Best regards, Blair Hinson, AKA PalmettoB

If for not the last passage in sparkys post or the fact that he slyly excused himself by saying that "its just a part of the world we live in" I think I would agree with you!

Originally Posted by sparky5693

Gentleman, it was never my intention to be an annoyance. This is a 100% automatically generated email that is sent to users based on their length of inactivity. Emails like this are a part of the world we live in. My real world employer sends them, and i'd imagine most of yours do too.

I care greatly about all of the members of my site, and I spend hours everyday thinking of ways I can improve their experience. I believe my goal is the same as yours, to show people there is something else out there than a cartridge razor and can of foam, all while in a friendly atmosphere. I send emails like this because they work. I can't count how many times I've forgotten the name of a website, or a forum I liked in passing, (I spend a lot of time on the net). The more users a forum has, the more information and experiences it has to share. In hindsight I wish I had included a way at the bottom to opt out of emails like this, but it does come from my email, so any response would have came back to me anyway. Up until now, I have never received a complaint about this email system.

I took the liberty of scanning through this thread, pulling out the user names that were unhappy with this feature, and disabling the mentioned emails. The users I found are listed below:
adjustme69
scarface
ucliker

On a side note, why does there have to be such animosity amongst the shaving forums? Threads like this seem to do nothing more than make the world upset. We might all have a different house, but we live in the same neighborhood.

-Sparky5693 (TSD Admin)

I would hope there is no animosity among the groups. Since I started the first straight razor forum on the web, I believe that seeing all the forums including yours is a good thing. I participate in several of the groups. You guys want personality contests......great. I simply hope that we continue to provide the best straight razor information out there and remain a place where our members can rely on this information and be there to help others and continue to learn.

This being said, the fact that spam email is being sent out to solicit participation is uncalled for in my opinion. The other forums have grown on their own without stooping to such tactics.

Lynn

Originally Posted by majurey

Some of the worst offenders are charities, who will go to extraordinary lengths to get your attention and response (at least in the UK they do). I find it irritating, but it's so widespread these days.

THE worst offender has to be the group of companies/products under the TIME magazine family. If you EVER buy ANYTHING from them they will be in your mailbox daily (including invoices for products you no longer subscribe to). Now THAT is annoying.

Personally, a note from a forum I'd taken the time to join (as opposed to simply lurking in) would be well recieved by me. I can understand feeling the opposite about it, but I don't. As mentioned above, there are several forums I have been active in over the years and no longer visit (for a wide variety of reasons that don't really matter to this discussion). If not visiting a forum is a consious choice, that's one thing, but if it's because you've been spending your time doing other things, you (okay - "I") sometimes have an "Oh yeah, I remember that place - Let's go see how folks there are doing..." reaction. Just me and my feable mind, I suppose

Cheers,

Ken

Originally Posted by sparky5693

Gentleman, it was never my intention to be an annoyance. This is a 100% automatically generated email that is sent to users based on their length of inactivity. Emails like this are a part of the world we live in. My real world employer sends them, and i'd imagine most of yours do too. <snip>

Originally Posted by JMS

for me it has nothing to do with liking that forum or hating this forum, it has more to do with common courtesy!
<snip>

Has common sense and common courtesy gone out the window!

My $.02 is that

1. no, emails like this are not part of the world I live in... my spam program makes sure of that. And no, my employer doesn't doesn't send emails like this out.
2. yes, common courtesy seems to have disappeared... along with the notion that the customer is always right.

The younger generations seem to believe that whatever the computer does legitimizes something happening that offends the customer. Well, after designing and programming computers for almost 40 years now, I can assure you computers still don't do much of anything a human hasn't instructed them to do. So accountability still as to be assumed by the humans, like it or not.

An "Oh, sorry" response is nice... but only if it's followed up by some action which tries to resolve the issue and insure it won't happen again. To his credit, Sparky has done that.

To diverge a little...

I'm reminded of a recent vacation... I had sprained my ankle and was having a little difficulty getting all the luggage from the condo to the car in a timely manner... meanwhile, checkout was to be completed by 10am. At 9:45 I called the office and said I needed an extra 15-20 minutes as I was hobbling with stuff as quickly as possible, but things were going slowly. "No problem, I was told".

Nonetheless, promptly at 10am the electronic key (which I needed to get through courtyard gates and into the condo) was disabled... while I was outside loading the car. There I was... locked out, my car keys and cell phone were still in the condo... no one around and a block and a half walk to the office to resolve the problem. The temperature was already over 100 and it had rained a few hours earlier so it was plenty humid... nonetheless I hobbled toward the office.

When I arrived at the office I wasn't in the best of moods. After waiting in line for 20-minutes, I got to explain that I was locked out. The desk clerk said "Oh yeah... the COMPUTERS automatically lock you out at 10am. I guess whoever you talked to forgot to extend the lockout. Sorry."... like that would make everything ok.

I explained that it was understandable that I got locked out... everyone makes a mistake once in a while. But "I'm sorry fixes nothing and really means nothing". I told her I still vividly remember when I was about 7 years old I knocked over my Mother's favorite vase and it broke. I was profuse with "I'm sorry"... right through mom saying she "understood I was sorry, but the vase is still broken"... and then she gave me a whipping. I asked her what I could do to make it alright... she said fix it. I said I couldn't and I had no money to buy another one. She said it was her great grandmother's... I couldn't just buy one. And then I got the lecture about how "you have to think through the possible consequences of your actions BEFORE there's a problem... not after".

The desk clerk just looked at me like I was crazy. I said "I guess you don't get it... mistakes will happen. But you have no backup procedure to resolve a problem when someone gets locked out. No phone on the wall. No bell to ring or intercom button to push. Nothing!"

Again I got "I said I'm sorry! The computers do that automatically."

There we go again... still hiding behind the computer instead of taking some responsibility that things weren't right and promising to try to fix them for the future. So I had to have a little talk with the manager... you know, about how I'm sorry doesn't really make anything better... but taking some action so it never happens again... yada yada yada. He seemed to understand... especially when I indicated I might not stay there again if that's the way they were going to treat their guests.

We'll see next time I stay there... if I stay there.

Originally Posted by azjoe

...The younger generations seem to believe that whatever the computer does legitimizes something happening that offends the customer. Well, after designing and programming computers for almost 40 years now, I can assure you computers still don't do much of anything a human hasn't instructed them to do. So accountability still as to be assumed by the humans, like it or not.

...

Tonite I went to a local hardware store, and picked up two items with the shelf marked $6.49 each (NOBODY puts a price on an item anymore - I HATE UPC's!). When I checked out at the cash register, the total was $16.78. When I questioned it, the high school gal behind the check stand re-scanned them, and the same price came up. When I pointed out that they were clearly marked $6.49 on the shelf, her response........'Well, the shelf was probably mis-marked. NEXT!"

Exactly the same attitude that Joe mentioned...computers don't make mistakes!....the computer is ALWAYS right!....if you have a problem, well.....would you like to talk directly to the computer???

I could have made a scene.....I probably SHOULD have made a scene....I wanted to just grab her by the nose and drag her back to the shelf and show her, but it wouldn't have made any difference....the only way I would have gotten any satisfaction at all would have been to go to the manager.

I'm pretty sure that computer was running WINDOWS.

-whatever

-Lou