Thread: Welsh Thuringian

Originally Posted by Greg59

I agree that a razor honed on a coticule followed by a pasted strop leave a very nice edge but them it is the pasted strop that is the finisher and not the coticule.

Greg59

If the pasted strop is the finisher why not go to that right off the 8k then........ i dont think it would be a comparable shave dont you think!!

Originally Posted by Martin103

I dont know why someone would say that coticules are not good finisher when so many loves them, in Europe mostly in France,
the coticule honing followed with pasted strops is the norm. And that 5 out of 100 CF are no good for razors!!

Sham has had hundreds of coticules and has only kept a few. He likes the salm rock and says it is one of his best stones.

Originally Posted by Martin103

Well i dont know your experience with honing but i know sham is quite experienced, on the same note he also said that CF and
LI are not suited for razors, witch trouble me!!

I haven't tried stones from that seller in all fairness so take my comments as you find them, but have tried vintage equivalents and came to much the same conclusion as Sham and Greg, to be honest. The best of the bunch I have is a vintage purple slate, and I would rate that at around 10 - 11k - all the others I have sold. Of the vintage Yellow Lake oilstones, well they are such a mixed bunch it is impossible to give a meaningful grit equivalent (in addition to the usual proviso of natural stones not having grit equivalents), but they can be medium to pre-finishers, depending on type. Inigo Jones's dragons tongue are a bit like the Yellow Lakes - they come from more than one source, and I have had very, very many of them and found them to range from 7k to 9k by and large.

The so-called welsh thuringian is an oddball. Because the name is newly-coined one cannot compare it with anything, except perhaps the dark grey Yellow Lake variant, and that is well below 15k, possibly more like 9 - 11k. The silkstones - of which I spoke earlier in another post are better than this - maybe 10 - 12k and better on average than the purple slate hones.

As far as Sham's results go, well Sham is only human - he's been wrong before, he is wrong in some of the assertions he has made on that other forum now about other hones and no doubt he will be wrong again in the future (ie, he is not God! ), but he is probably right about CFs and LIs inasmuch as they were for tool rather than razor use. There is not much evidence to show that CFs were used to hone razors - in fact I have only seen one reference that links them directly with Sheffield. The reference said that the CFs were used because of their hardness - they were used to strike-off the thin burr or wire-edge that was left after hollow grinding. Then the razors were sharpened - but not using a CF. A mysterious yellow or white stone from Wales is mentioned, but no one knows what it was or where it came from.

A possible reference to either the LI or the CF (CF stone was used for paving once and crushed as aggregate) or even the gutlers greenstone appears in the history books too. There was a 'greenstone' found among the paving slabs of London in Michael Faraday's time (1791-1867) that was used as a finishing hone for razors. Faraday teamed-up with James Stodart (sometimes called Stoddard, 1760-1823), a noted razor maker with a shop in Strand, London. It is from this union that the use of the London greenstone is recorded: Stodart says that it was used for the last few strokes of honing, during which the spine of the razor was raised slightly (secondary bevel! Predates TIs use of it by a fair bit!). The razor was tested by holding a piece of thin leather taut and dropping the blade on it - it was said to go noiselessly and cleanly through the leather. However, we can not ascribe it to either LIs or CFs because we do not know exactly what he was talking about.

We tend to use anything that comes to light for razors, providing it has a history of sharpening tools or similar, and the LIs and CFs fit into that category - I think they make good finishers, but that is because I like a crisp edge rather than a smooth one. I have gone through a lot of coticules too - not as many as Sham, probably around 50 - 60, but I have only kept one - a Les Latneuses, which gives incredibly crisp edges and is not what you would normally associate with a coticule at all.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Martin103

If the pasted strop is the finisher why not go to that right off the 8k then........ i dont think it would be a comparable shave dont you think!!

Martin
I don't recall ever having used a pasted strop right after an 8k. I have shaved straight off of an 8k and I have shaved straight off of a coticule. I liked the 8k edge better because I got a closer shave with less tugging. The coticule edge was defanitly more skin frendly. It just was not sharp enough for me. It's just a matter of personal preferance. Believe me when I say that I wish that I could get the kind of edge straight off of a coticule like everyone raves about that I would be happy with. I like the idea of using just one hone to cover all my honing needs from bevel setting to finishing. I just have not found one yet that I am satisfied with as a finisher.

Greg59

Originally Posted by Greg59

I have sensative skin as well as a corse beard. The first time I shaved with a razor honed by Sham was a real eye opener. It was like shaving with a velvet squeegee. It was the smoothest most comfrotabe shave I had ever had withe a straight razor. My face is spoiled now and I am not satisfied with any thing less.
By the way I just have to say that I love your avitar. It all ways brightens my day when I see it.

Greg59

I have recieved the same type of shave from a Jnat,Thuri and a few others. I know how great those shave are.

Thank you. I glad you like her. I do to. LOL!

Hey, been a part of SRP for 3yrs,never commented.But I will on this hone.First off, you guys have saved me some coin.I read the forums relentlessly before I decided to go with natural stones.I purchased all my stones off eBay(Apart barber hone,two Belgian combos,a C12k)and I have been satisfied.I have both set bevels and maintained my razors with these.Also,bought a Torrey razor that was sharpened by a guy on this forum.TODAY,I GOT THE GREEN GRAY FINISHER FROM AJ (15K) 50 passes with slurry and fifty with water and I'm afraid of this razor.I now know what wicked sharp is.My face is as smooth as a baby's butt.I may get another one before the prices go up,just to keep around.

Just got my set today I have a 6/8 Dovo Best Quality needs a little touch up so I will give them a spin tonight

I know I'm joining the party late, but 'Welsh Thuringian' is a term that lacks any credibility whatsoever. The fact that it may be Welsh precludes it from being Thuringian. Wales is a small country in the UK, Thurinigia is a state within Germany. Let's call it Welsh slate, Yellow Lake, DT or something else. This is meant to be a site where intelligent discussion takes place. Please, let's not undermime that objective.

Well I recieved my 3 stone set yesterday. I lapped them and then went to work on 2 razors, my Dovo Special and an old W&B. I reset the bevels on the King 1K, then on to the Norton 4/8K and then about 20 laps on each stone in progression with just water. All I can say is awesome. I was very impressed with the shave from both razors after

After testing Rod's stone at the MN meet, I ordered two for myself.
The first arrived yesterday.

My observations:
Lapped on the DMT 325 it had some surface scratches. Lapping on the Naniwa SS 400 (my go-to stone for finish lapping naturals) took out the scratches.
It still had a gritty feel on the razors, so I used my Norton 1K on it and then the 4K. That did remove the gritty feel.

I took two razors through my standard progression of bevel set - Norton 1K - Naniwa SS 2k - Norton 4k - Norton 8k. Off the 8k I used the new stone.
The scratch pattern under the microscope was definitely finer than the Norton 8k. With some experimenting, I found 30 strokes or so to be about right for the stone.
My Naniwa SS 12k is on loan to someone else, so I didn't have a synthetic finer than 8k to compare scratches to.
The welsh slate left finer scratches than the finest Guanxi or Coticule that I have. I am hesitant to put an approximate number on the grit, but based on scratches it looks really nice, and it's not terribly slow.

The results I am seeing thus far from this stone are similar to the one I tested at the MN meet. I will be shaving with the blades I used on it shortly...
I hope the other one arrives tomorrow so I can compare.