Thread: Hone of the Day

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Just to clear up the terms here. If you look at the pic below, the dark sliver of hard steel on the bigger hollow side is the ura there is no soft iron there. The soft iron is on the omote side & pretty much the majority of the razor.

I get where you are coming from but... It was actually the Ura that was wonky. I had expected the opposite. The Omote side (soft iron) came in quite easily without having to remove much steel. The Ura (front side with kanji) had uneven voids in the steel at the spine causing a teetering effect until it was flattened out a bit. This was a virgin kamisori with zero hone wear prior to this honing session.

Originally Posted by Straightandproud

I get where you are coming from but... It was actually the Ura that was wonky. I had expected the opposite. The Omote side (soft iron) came in quite easily without having to remove much steel. The Ura (front side with kanji) had uneven voids in the steel at the spine causing a teetering effect until it was flattened out a bit. This was a virgin kamisori with zero hone wear prior to this honing session.

OK, let me pull you up there again Ura means back in Japanese not front but I get the issues you're describing. Sounds like the steel went for a bit of a walk in the quench.

With larger kataba (single bevel) tools such as knives it is possible to straighten any warps prior to honing. Flattening the back (ura) on chisels is also done & is called ura-oshi. The back of the chisel is not completely flattened, the hollow is retained but a bevel & the sides are all trued. Might be tricky on something as short as a razor.

I honed up a Sheffield blade on Saturday that really seemed to be sharp. It was cutting through arm hairs with ease, and in my case that usually means it will be a good shaver.

It did technically shave, but it certainly wasn't a good shave.

I decided to try looking at the edge through a loupe. I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary. I compared it to one of my best shaving razors (again under a loupe) and I couldn't tell much difference between the two. It was only when I looked at an unhoned razor under the loupe that I could see the light reflections that I've been told to look for when the bevel is not set.

In regard to this, are you folks who use a loupe able to detect the difference between a blade that is almost there vs one that is going to be a great shaver? Or is this something that only a shave test will reveal? I did look at the scratch patterns on the bevel and those didn't appear significantly different.

Also, if your shave test wasn't quite there, how far back in your progression would you go- all the way to the bevel setter, maybe somewhere in between?

Yes,I can see when it is almost a set bevel and when it is a completely finished apex.
While looking almost straight on the point of the apex and using a decent loupe and a good light source, the missing part of the apex shows white of a bright reflection. A truly finished apex is very difficult to identify because it is much more narrow and does not reflect light back but you can roll it and see one bevel and across to the other. It’s hard to describe. It would be easier if we were honing together.

Yeah, one of these days I need to head to one of those meet ups.

I first learned my basics from Glens videos, then from a great guy in Edmonton, then from Glen, then from new and older members at meets. It is pretty amazing how you can pick stuff up in a flash in person. Two people with a common interest is a meet!

Decided to have a little fun with my own little pocket knife, a Spyderco Bob Lum made in Japan made from VG10, thought I would try and put this little knife in the same sharpness levels of razor territory, I have in my knife sharpening kit stones going from 400 right through to a Naniwa 12K, well all I will say the knife was finished on the Naniwa 12K stropped on leather and yes indeed it did pass the HHT and I now have a shave ready pocket knife .

Congrats Jamie. It is fun to bring a knife to that level. Even though it may not last long it is really fun while it does. Many will complain that it is not worth the work but, for me, it is. It doesn’t take me much time or effort. Plus, I ENJOY doing it.

A good looking little spider there too.

Your edge does not get fully developed and straight until about 6-8k, (which is where most Barber Hones are), so you will not see a fully set edge, (no reflections, a black line) when looking straight down on the edge, in the lower grits, 1&4k, but you will see any chips, (white reflections).

At 1k you will see most of the edge is black and tiny spots of reflection. As said rocking the spine will show you a bit of the bevel from both sides. This often will show you if you have a large burr, a large white line on one side only.

A good tip for a problem edge, especially if you have done some heavy honing to make a repair, like chip removal, is to joint the edge, just one stroke on the corner of the stone. This will cut off the burr and give you a straight edge to hone to.

Look at the edge after jointing, you will see a solid or near solid white line, any dark spots on the edge are micro pits. If you see large dark spots, look at them from the side, (rock the blade to one side where you see the chip) to see if they are deep chips. If so, you must go back to the 1k and hone them out.

I joint at 1k, before moving up in stone, then reset the edge, usually about 15-20 laps. Use lite pressure and alternating laps, or you will make a new burr.

The better you get the edge at 1k, the easier the rest of your honing will be. If you have a ragged edge with lots of flashing/burr eventually the burr will break off and now you have a ragged edge.

At 4k your edge should look pretty chip free, it should look like a black line with some tiny specks of white dots, at 8k it should be solid black. If you run your loupe on the edge you can roll the edge, but 10 laps will bring it back.

Don’t be afraid to joint the edge at the finisher, 15-20 laps will bring the edge back without any flash/burr. I even do it on a 20k or finisher.
Here is an old post showing what to look for when looking straight down on an edge. It is a bit long, but post 42, Photos 4 & 5 (upper right- hand corner) show and edge that is close, (not fully set). Post 51, first photo, shows a fully set bevel.

Second Try at Honing.

Thanks for the advice! I'm trying to take the guesswork out of my honing sessions. I'll get back at it this weekend and report back.