Thread: Rolling X - I think I figured something out

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Good to see Gold Dollars are still going strong.

If you are X-ing on a hone, then it is reasonable to visualise say an inch of razor touching the edge of the hone at any particular time, starting at the heel at the beginning of the stroke and winding up at the toe by the end of the stroke. If you simply concentrate on making sure that inch window is in contact with the side of the hone as you move along the razor's length, you will naturally incorporate a rolling motion. At least that has been my experience.

James.

I think that is sort of how I figured out the feeling I was trying to describe.

A excellent description, Jimbo.
I guess another way to describe it is.. If your honing on a wide (3" +) stone, concentrate the edge on only 1/3 of the stone width, closest to you. Keep that edge cutting water along that 1/3 of stone, and do a simple x stroke.

It'll help train you, to hone a smile.

A excellent description, Jimbo.
I guess another way to describe it is.. If your honing on a wide (3" +) stone, concentrate the edge on only 1/3 of the stone width, closest to you. Keep that edge cutting water along that 1/3 of stone, and do a simple x stroke.

It'll help train you, to hone a smile.

Originally Posted by outback

A excellent description, Jimbo.
I guess another way to describe it is.. If your honing on a wide (3" +) stone, concentrate the edge on only 1/3 of the stone width, closest to you. Keep that edge cutting water along that 1/3 of stone, and do a simple x stroke.

It'll help train you, to hone a smile.

Cool. I have seen this discussed and tried it, but never really thought about focusing only on that water. I have a tendency to draw my focus more on the blade then. I gotta think to look more at the water.
.

Sometimes I wish we had never made up all those stupid names of strokes back then, and I am as guilty as the next guy as a few are my inventions. I think they lead to people following the stroke instead of the edge

Look let me make this very simple..

You need to move the bevel evenly and equally across the hone using enough pressure and torque to keep that little ripple of water / swarf in front of the edge.. You are going to use whatever movements / strokes / honing gymnastics required to accomplish that.
This is also self correcting as you hone, the more smooth / keen the bevel gets as you proceed the less pressure and torque it will take to keep that ripple ahead of and finally riding up on the face of the blade.. If the ripple slips under the front edge you are no longer honing, you are wasting steel and time.. What takes time is learning that muscle memory and the moves required to do that

Everything else is simply a waste of typing and ego

Honing really is that simple, now I have to go finish honing a bench full of different razors which are all going to take different honing gymnastics to achieve a tiny even keen edge


Hone On !!!!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Sometimes I wish we had never made up all those stupid names of strokes back then, and I am as guilty as the next guy as a few are my inventions. I think they lead to people following the stroke instead of the edge

Look let me make this very simple..

You need to move the bevel evenly and equally across the hone using enough pressure and torque to keep that little ripple of water /swarf in front of the edge.. You are going to use whatever movements/ strokes / honing gymnastics required to accomplish that.
This is also self correcting as you hone, the more smooth / keen the bevel gets as you proceed the less pressure and torque it will take to keep that ripple ahead of and finally riding up on the face of the blade.. If the ripple slips under the front edge you are no longer honing, you are wasting steel and time.. What takes time is learning that muscle memory and the moves required to do that

Everything else is simply a waste of typing and ego

Honing really is that simple, now I have to go finish honing a bench full of different razors which are all going to take different honing gymnastics to achieve a tiny even keen edge


Hone On !!!!

I think this is well said. And yeah, honing the box of different razors is the problem. Up to now all my razors have been very well behaved. I rocked a few razors as Cres City said and noticed my main problem. The ones that seemed to have been honed on the stabilizer are so far off on the toe there is no way to make contact without lifting the heel side spine off the stone. And, even honing on one edge of the stone, as Outback mentioned, I was still trying to keep it level as though it was still on the stone.

So, it is sort of coming to that 1. Learn the rules. 2. Learn enough to know when to break them.

I really appreciate all yall. So many things are clicking place.

EDIT: Oh, and in hindsight, if a razor was honed on the stabilizer, by definition the spine was probably off the stone. So, obviously I would need to do that. A lot of these clicking in to places are combined with a "well, that should have been obvious".

Originally Posted by planeden

I think this is well said. And yeah, honing the box of different razors is the problem. Up to now all my razors have been very well behaved. I rocked a few razors as Cres City said and noticed my main problem. The ones that seemed to have been honed on the stabilizer are so far off on the toe there is no way to make contact without lifting the heel side spine off the stone. And, even honing on one edge of the stone, as Outback mentioned, I was still trying to keep it level as though it was still on the stone.

So, it is sort of coming to that 1. Learn the rules. 2. Learn enough to know when to break them.

I really appreciate all yall. So many things are clicking place.

Don't overthink it, Watch the Ripple, or as I used to always say "Ride that wave to a sharp edge" it all self corrects if you just do that, regardless of razor, geometry or even stone used,, The moves required to ride that little wave are the right ones

Exception to that rule is if the razor needs Restoration BEFORE Honing but we are talking honing right now, Bevel Restoration is a different discussion

Also I should mention

I doesn't matter how many razors I have honed over the years, if in doubt as to what the edge is doing I still find the MMT (Magic Marker Test) to be invaluable to find the moves I need to use, the tape I need to apply to get a tiny even bevel

Don't shy away from using the second hand to guide and control the toe when establishing your bevel

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Exception to that rule is if the razor needs Restoration BEFORE Honing but we are talking honing right now, Bevel Restoration is a different discussion

Crap. Is there a section for that?

Short version: I think I was putting all this together to use the gymnastics required to an even "bevel" along the edge. Mark the edge and do some x-strokes. See where it is contacting and see how the bevel is shaping up. Then do the gymnastics so it matches that all along the edge.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Also I should mention

I doesn't matter how many razors I have honed over the years, if in doubt as to what the edge is doing I still find the MMT (Magic Marker Test) to be invaluable to find the moves I need to use, the tape I need to apply to get a tiny even bevel

Don't shy away from using the second hand to guide and control the toe when establishing your bevel

The MMT is great.

I will not tell anyone that I use a second hand, I get in trouble for that . That said, I have found that grabbing the left over tape off the toe is a good way to stabilize things.