Thread: Rolling X - I think I figured something out

I use my second hand all the time when I hone - there's no shame in it. You want to get an even bevel quickly and effectively, I've noticed a bit of pressure is your friend in most cases and two hands helps that. I only go off onto one hand on the finishers - my escher and my asagi.

Do what works best for you.

James.

Originally Posted by planeden

EDIT: Oh, and in hindsight, if a razor was honed on the stabilizer, by definition the spine was probably off the stone. So, obviously I would need to do that. A lot of these clicking in to places are combined with a "well, that should have been obvious".

Hmmmmm not sure what you are saying here, The stabilizer / shoulder should not be involved with this at all, if it is touching the hone it needs to be knocked down first, otherwise it is going to lift the heel edge away from the hone..

Bad design or wear on the edge can bring it into play, fix it BEFORE you start honing


Edit: can we see a pic of the edge and spine of this razor that is giving you issues, I thought we were talking about honing in general but it seems to have narrowed down onto a razor with "Issues"

Sounds all very complicated to me. I prefer a narrow hone, it does the same as rolling X-strokes &c. Those 1 inch wide generic grey Thuringians are great.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I use my second hand all the time when I hone - there's no shame in it. You want to get an even bevel quickly and effectively, I've noticed a bit of pressure is your friend in most cases and two hands helps that. I only go off onto one hand on the finishers - my escher and my asagi.

Do what works best for you.

James.

It was 90% joke. Someone on here has a signature that says "there are many paths to sharp", which I am a big fan of. There are many different philosophies on here and I play with all of them and figure out what works best for me. But, there is a concern that with two hands you can either add too much pressure or uneven pressure. So, I have paid attention to that and make sure when I am using two hands I am not adding too much pressure on the toe. But, regardless, I know that it is better to risk too much pressure than letting the toe chatter around down the stone .

As for applying pressure, for me I find it easier to keep everything smooth and even by mostly letting the blade weight do the work on that. I figure since I am doing it for fun, there is no rush. I will apply pressure at times when I need to, but generally I just do more strokes.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hmmmmm not sure what you are saying here, The stabilizer / shoulder should not be involved with this at all, if it is touching the hone it needs to be knocked down first, otherwise it is going to lift the heel edge away from the hone..

Bad design or wear on the edge can bring it into play, fix it BEFORE you start honing


Edit: can we see a pic of the edge and spine of this razor that is giving you issues, I thought we were talking about honing in general but it seems to have narrowed down onto a razor with "Issues"

Oh, yeah, I guess I switched gears a bit quick there. I knew what I was thinking, so why didn't you? Anyway, I bought a batch of 10 grungy razors and have been learning to fix them up. Some of them were honed poorly before and speculation was that they were honed for years with the stabilizer on the stone. I do not put the stabilizer on the stone, and I have reshaped some heels to get the edge away from the stabilizer. I honestly thought that some people must like their razors in this shape and did it on purpose.



I think this is one they said may have been done that way. But, either way it is pretty narrow at the toe and so will probably be hard to get at.

But, I had intended this to be more of a general conversation. Because I think that once I figure out the type of gymnastics to do, and more importantly the feel I get when I am doing the right gymnastics, I can play around with it to get some of these sharp. I am not sure whether I will like shaving with something like this. But, it has still be fun to restore.

Originally Posted by Kees

Sounds all very complicated to me. I prefer a narrow hone, it does the same as rolling X-strokes &c. Those 1 inch wide generic grey Thuringians are great.

I accidentally got one of these. It was in that first batch of 10 razors. I have just started playing with it, though. And, that was after the 12K stone. I need to google it and see how/when to slurry and all that stuff. I know that is all over the internet already. Just haven't done much research on it, yet.

That looks like a razor, used by a barber.. They typically have a lot of hone wear at the toe, and always stops, into the stabilizer. Then they grab a new one, and do the same thing.

They're just tools to them guys, use it up, throw it to the side for a new one.

I just finished cleaning up and honing twenty some of them, the other day. Might not be pretty, but they'll still shave.

Planeden, if I may share some experience. You can buy worn razors and make them shave. Rewarding.

OR you can put off buying 4 or 5 of them and buying a nice, quality, and pristine blade.
Trust me, a proper blade will take no time and will perform 50 percent better. Likely more.

Blades are ground to be efficient. Most especially the good vintage ones.
As half the sucker is gone, scales are broken, profiles are in the past, improper honing/stropping in the mix. Hone wear?
Damage/wear done in the past or in the present makes the razor begin to be a hunk of steel instead of what it was as-new.

Good shape. Yeah!

IMO, Id cut off the toe and make it a shorty. Grind the heal/stabilizer back away from the edge. Then see about honing. But that would be if i had nothing better to work on. The blade has been worn to the point of being scrap. Learn to buy razors that are not beyond fixing properly. That too takes time to learn.
As Tom said... Buy one of much better shape and not 4 pieces of scrap metal.

Sorry for being so blunt. We all learn as we go along and have been there before.

Truth

You learn to hone from the top down not the bottom up

So many guys new to honing start at the bevel set and try and learn to hone often with suspect razors this makes the whole process take longer and honestly you teach yourself bad habits

Learning to maintain a shave ready razor first teaches you so much more about the touch required and you learn how the edge should look/feel much faster


But nobody listens

Yep. I was one of those who wouldnt listen and it took me many months and razors before it started to come together.

Yup, heel correction would have made the razor so much easier to hone and would have prevented all the damage to the Heel, Stabilizer, Spine, Frowning edge and Massive Wear at the toe.

The razor is riding on the stabilizer, which keeps the heel half of the razor off the stone, so the honer just applied more pressure and needlessly caused all that damage.

Re profiling the heel will move the corner of the edge, at the heel, well forward of the stabilizer and prevent the stabilizer from making contact, the edge will then sit flat on the hone.

You could reshape the heel or make the heel match the toe for a super smiler. Either way nothing will fix the toe. A Super Smiler will also remove the frown at the same time removing a minimum of steel.

As said earlier, this is not honing, this is repair work, so that it can be properly honed. Two layers of tape should make up for lost spine thickness. It is an easy repair, there are several threads on heel correction, all you need is a diamond plate or low grit stone. The steel is thin at the heel and can be removed easily.

Do make a plan/template and mark the razor with a sharpie, it is too easy to cut too much and make things worse.