Thread: I'm not sure what to say about this.

Just playing Devils Advocate (because I find it fun!) how does that argument explain the rise and spread of chopsticks becoming widespread in Asia? If Murray came along with a knife, spoon and fork I'd swap my chopsticks in a heartbeat - I don't care how long it took however many dedicated souls to perfect the chopstick!

Regards,
Neil

I'm sure if Murray Carter came along with alternate cutlery there'd be no need for the knife - I hear his spoons are plenty sharp!

Playing along with the devil's advocate thing, good luck with eating a steak with a set of chopsticks. The cultural differences in cuisine are, I think, the main reasons why chopsticks are used throughout Asia. That, and cultural dogma. Not that I know of course, just a guess. But I would hazard that if the staple diet throughout Asia wasn't predominantly rice and noodle based, a different set of eating utensils would have developed to reflect the needs dictated by the food eaten. And of course the preparation of food has concurrently developed to reflect the eating utensils.

Of course, this is not to say what Carter does is incorrect or wrong. It is just different. But let's just say I don't think his "cultural cuisine" is Asian-based. As the old saying goes: Don't bring a (sharpened) spoon to a chopstick fight.

James.

How did this thread go on for 20 some pages, get closed, then get re-opened with a link to the original video that started the first 22 pages of yacking, all over again?

Originally Posted by regularjoe

How did this thread go on for 20 some pages, get closed, then get re-opened with a link to the original video that started the first 22 pages of yacking, all over again?

We merged this new thread with the old thread. That is better than having several threads rehashing the entire discussion.

Originally Posted by regularjoe

How did this thread go on for 20 some pages, get closed, then get re-opened with a link to the original video that started the first 22 pages of yacking, all over again?

That's easy Joe, it's like the closing scene in Deliverance; where the hand reappears after the valley was flooded.
The boys drive off thanking the body is well weighted down.
Should of tied a few more pounds to this one.

Just shows that you don't understand the asian mindset.
No offense intended. I know a bit mroe about this because I am learning Japanese, and am also involved in traditional Japanese jujutsu. And of course, I am keenly interested in Japanese smithing techniques

In the west, we are always looking for a shortcut. A smarter way to do something, with less effort. And our society praises people who are good at this.

In Japan for example, this is not the case. Japanese praise mental fortitude and perseverance. If something is difficult or painful, that's normal. The answer is not to make it easier but to work harder or ignore the pain. For example, I know a guy in Japan who does kyudo (archery). Every year they have an exhibition for which they need to literally move a mountain of sand (as a safety against stray arrows. They do this by shoveling the sand in buckets and sacks, and then carrying them to the right location. the guy (westerner living in Japan) knew that their neighbor had a wheelbarrow, and there was concrete path from there to where they needed to be.

He was smart enough to not bring this up in public, but instead mentioned it to his best friend in that dojo, who immediately shushed him. Because to suggest the easy way would imply that you're trying to cop out, and lack perseverance. That would be a very shameful thing to do. I could list many different example, but they all boil down to that.

If you explain to a Japanese that a knife and fork are easier, they will listen politely, compliment you on coming up with a better solution, thank you, and continue to use chopsticks. Because switching to chopsticks just because it is easier would be a cop out.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Just shows that you don't understand the asian mindset.
No offense intended. I know a bit mroe about this because I am learning Japanese, and am also involved in traditional Japanese jujutsu. And of course, I am keenly interested in Japanese smithing techniques

In the west, we are always looking for a shortcut. A smarter way to do something, with less effort. And our society praises people who are good at this.

In Japan for example, this is not the case. Japanese praise mental fortitude and perseverance. If something is difficult or painful, that's normal. The answer is not to make it easier but to work harder or ignore the pain. For example, I know a guy in Japan who does kyudo (archery). Every year they have an exhibition for which they need to literally move a mountain of sand (as a safety against stray arrows. They do this by shoveling the sand in buckets and sacks, and then carrying them to the right location. the guy (westerner living in Japan) knew that their neighbor had a wheelbarrow, and there was concrete path from there to where they needed to be.

He was smart enough to not bring this up in public, but instead mentioned it to his best friend in that dojo, who immediately shushed him. Because to suggest the easy way would imply that you're trying to cop out, and lack perseverance. That would be a very shameful thing to do.

No offense taken, nor instruction necessary - it was intended as humorous.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Bruno

cultural assumptions

I personally find it painful to read this kind of thing, with old occident-orient dichotomies and stereotypes substituting for cultural knowledge. I find the same kind of talk among self-styled "expatriates" in most of East Asia. Many, and I would even hazard most, Japanese people seem to enjoy, appreciate, and embrace convenience, efficiency, and novelty. This is not merely limited to a "Westernized" youth culture either.

Statements about "the West" are also untrue in most contexts. I remember spending quite a bit of time in a Japanese language department in an American university hearing privileged white kids with manga fetishes making sweeping statements about why "the West" sucked so much. I don't know but suppose some of them went to Japan for quite a while and likely deemed themselves competent cultural representatives (like pretty much every English teacher working in East Asia).

Yet credulity is surprising...I once told an American that Asians wipe their posteriors right-to-left, and I immediately felt the need to clarify that I was kidding. I've talked to Taiwanese university students that thought Americans have no superstitions because they're so logical and scientifically-minded.

I have seen much of Carter’s video and read much of his writing. He does know a thing or two about knife making and sharpening. And this video is interesting and could be an alternative, if you found yourself in a situation where these were the only tools at hand.

But… do you think this is the method he uses for honing his custom knives?

He may also be a self promoting, advertising genius.

I haven't searched back through the original thread, but is the method that Murray Carter demonstrated in his video similar to what the Japanese do when honing their traditional razors?