Thread: I'm not sure what to say about this.

Guys, seriously, let it go. He is a very good knife maker, that charges a lot for his knives, and bad at honing. That's all there is to it. We can keep beating the horse or skinning the cat, but the video will stay there for as long as he wants, and we can do nothing about it.
PS. Mr Carter, please, remove the video.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Guys, seriously, let it go. He is a very good knife maker, that charges a lot for his knives, and bad at honing. That's all there is to it. We can keep beating the horse or skinning the cat, but the video will stay there for as long as he wants, and we can do nothing about it.
PS. Mr Carter, please, remove the video.

Actually he is only bad at razor honing, but you are right in the other aspects.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Guys, seriously, let it go. He is a very good knife maker, that charges a lot for his knives, and bad at honing. That's all there is to it. We can keep beating the horse or skinning the cat, but the video will stay there for as long as he wants, and we can do nothing about it.
PS. Mr Carter, please, remove the video.

Agreed and I'll go a step further and say leave the video up.

There are lots of bad videos propagating misinformation. I am not going to crusade against them all. If you don't research stuff and fall victim to the latest expert who's credentials include having access to a camera and the WWW, you get what you deserve.

Carter is great at making knives and promoting himself. I give him credit for that. He says he does it this way and it works for him. Who am I to argue?

I think I know a better way, but apparently he is not interested in what I have to say...

NEXT!!!

From the perspective of someone who is very new to straight razors, what he is doing is almost the complete opposite of what I learned, even before I found SRP. I remember the very first video that I watched, it was a young person around my age who had a two sided hone (not sure if he mentioned what grit, I can't find the video now for the life of me) and a strop. He didn't buy a shave ready razor, he showed how he honed it (edge leading in a X pattern) and stropped it.

I'm really confused by what Carter is doing...he seems to be honing far fewer times then what I've learned you should do. He stropped like what...four times? I also don't know why he hones the way that he does.

It's my understanding that the reason that you hone with the edge leading, is to remove the microscopic burrs that are on the edge to get it as fine as you can. Similarly, also from research, the reason that we then strop afterwards with the edge trailing is to smooth out or flatten what could be described as "pre-burrs" into a point along the edge.

The fact that he honed with the edge trailing puzzles me as it goes against the actual theory of what I have learned.
From my understanding, I would think that if you honed with the edge trailing, you'd be forcing the microscopic burrs to collect on the edge....which would result in an edge that is less than fine.
Now, I know that he said to then run the blade along some wood to remove these burrs that have collected....but this again goes against everything that I have learned (and not just what I've learned here at SRP) about how delicate the edge of a shave ready razor is.

In my mind....would he not effectively be collecting burrs along whatever sharp edge that he may have made and then ruining the edge (or lack there of because of the burr collection) by slicing wood with it, not matter how much pressure he uses?

Again, this is all from the perspective or someone new to straight razor shaving who has never honed before and has literally just started using a truly shave ready razor.

I'm not criticizing Carter, I'm just bringing up the points that confuse me personally and completely go against all of the theory that I have learned thus far.

Many of you have already talked about how this would be bad for a newbie to see as their first informational video and how some would take it as "gospel", and how that's the difference between a knife guy and a razor guy.
That point does make sense to me because there is indeed a huge difference between sharp and shave ready sharp. Both can cut but it's very difficult to explain to a knife guy just how obscenely sharp a razor needs to be to shave with. My neighbour is kind of like that as he is a knife guy. I was talking to an old friend today who wants to get into straights, has been sharpening knives all his life and immediately said that he would rather hone his own razor.
I find it hard to get them to listen. I just try to explain that it's a different approach with razors and try to tell them that it would be easier for them to pick up razor honing once they learn the difference in approaches.
Kind of off topic a bit, but it's easier to catch flies with honey rather than vinegar....right??? lol

Originally Posted by Tierdaen

I personally find it painful to read this kind of thing, with old occident-orient dichotomies and stereotypes substituting for cultural knowledge. I find the same kind of talk among self-styled "expatriates" in most of East Asia. Many, and I would even hazard most, Japanese people seem to enjoy, appreciate, and embrace convenience, efficiency, and novelty. This is not merely limited to a "Westernized" youth culture either.

Yet the perseverance vs doing things easier are true in general. I get this from westerners living in Japan, Japanese people themselves, various events in Japanese history, people who have a degree in Japanes culture, Japanese tv shows, etc. I am not saying one is better than the other, and as with Europeans or Americans, not everyone is the same. Plenty of people differ from the norm. Generalizations are never true for an entire group, but still are often a reasonably accurate representation of the majority.

There is even a Japanese tv show in which young kids are sent to some faraway store to buy something, say a bottle of milk. The kids are very young and scared to death about having to go out and take public transportation all alone. Of course, they are never in any real danger, but they don't know that. I was told that usually, the kids do what they were sent to do, but with a lot of crying and panic. And everybody is happy because the kid persevered. The audience loves it.

Even the Japantimes news paper says things like
Despite this law, Japanese workers famously take few of their allotted paid holidays. Companies were obliged to grant an average of 17.9 paid days of leave in 2010, according to a study by the labor ministry. Workers actually took only 8.6 days, or 48.1 percent of their granted allowance of paid leave, far lower than in most countries. In the overworked nation that is Japan, most workers don’t use — and therefore do lose — their paid holidays. The problem is so severe that legislators have created a bill that would force employers to force employees to take all their paid leave

So while you are correct that what I said is not true for 'all' Japanese, it is not an inaccurate description in general. The majority would value perseverance higher than efficiency and shortcuts.

You know what? When I see the video, I see 191 likes and 24 dislikes. That means, people like what they see.
If you don't like it, hit dislike. Everybody thinks its wrong, but then again, it's just 24 dislikes. Like, 1/20th of the people who posted here. I was the one, and another 23. Stop wining, and just hit the darned dislike button. Trolling is fun, but, if I didn't know how to hone, those statistics would mean a lot for me, and given the numbers, I would follow his method. Stop trolling and do something about it!

The part I really liked is him leaning his body weight onto the razor, as if he were performing chest compressions on a bodybuilder.

And then... you might want to do a... little bit of a grrrinnddd on the edge... like that

I took a look at some kamisori honing videos, and they mostly were done in the Japanese style. It may or may not give optimum results but it apparently is effective. Interesting, nevertheless.

Originally Posted by JeffR

I took a look at some kamisori honing videos, and they mostly were done in the Japanese style. It may or may not give optimum results but it apparently is effective. Interesting, nevertheless.

Japanese style honing and Kamisori honing are only the same when it comes to the motion, and what this video shows is neither...

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Just playing Devils Advocate (because I find it fun!) how does that argument explain the rise and spread of chopsticks becoming widespread in Asia? If Murray came along with a knife, spoon and fork I'd swap my chopsticks in a heartbeat - I don't care how long it took however many dedicated souls to perfect the chopstick!

Regards,
Neil

C'mon Neil . Everyone knows chopsticks are a healthier alternative. Chopstick makers don't have an equivalent of "cutlers lung".