Thread: I'm not sure what to say about this.

Originally Posted by matisso

With all that has already been said here, I imagine that he'd gladly hone a few razors for comparisons, even if he officially doesn't offer the service.

Any man who believes he's good at what he's doing would do so. But there will always be an excuse...

Until he actually does it will be indeed only in your imagination. There isn't a lack of invitations, and things in real life take longer than posting on the internet, so you will do well to not rush to a judgment as a knee jerk reaction to somebody else's rush of judgment.

Originally Posted by matisso

Best defend by attacking, eh? Somehow that kind trolling is fine with you?

No, it's not fine with me, but contrary to what you may think, this isn't a police state and we generally allow members, just like we have been allowing you to make mistakes. To a point, of course.

Originally Posted by matisso

Has anyone actually tried his edge? Most of you folks are true mockery masters.

"He who does things other way than ours, is worth nothing but laughter and pity." You should add that motto right below the logo. And consider changing the name to Straight Razor Hate. For real.

Matt

What a pity you don't understand or appreciate the history of SRP. If you did you would realise just how ridiculous your statement is.

James.

Oh my, I've been making mistakes. And I was even "allowed to", should I feel flattered? Why nobody ever told me before that I was making mistakes? :(

Honestly, you're making quite a ridicule of yourself taking that tone. I would never expect it from a moderator, actually...

Jimbo: history is one thing, today is another. :)

Matt:

Let's take this back to honing instead of getting personal...

Perhaps you could enlighten all of us on how you got this system to work for you, what razors you tried it on, and how well you tested it against your old system (tell us what that is too also please) and why you think it is a good system...

I am of course assuming that you have tested Murray's system on at least a few razors?????

ps: How did you overcome the problem of raising a burr and then smoothing that out without wasting excess steel ???? and why did you do that in the first place ???? Honestly I am a bit confused on that as one spot I hear burr and another I don't I would especially like to hear how it did on older heavier grinds like the Sheffielders???

Originally Posted by matisso

..
Jimbo: history is one thing, today is another.

True. Look, I do not disagree that the backlash against this guy has been both vehement and prolonged. However, having watched the video I do not think the questioning is unwarranted (even if the intensity may be). I've been honing razors for a while now, and although I do not claim expertise, even I can see there would be issues with this guy's technique if blindly copied.

Now, I am not saying this guy cannot shave with his edges, but what I am saying is that someone without a certain level of skill in the sharpening sphere who copied this technique would be in danger of either ruining their edge or their face, or both.

We have an accepted process for sharpening razors that has been developed by numerous members here, through trial and error, experimentation, success and failure, over many many years. In fact, if you add up the man-hours all the members here, past and present, have put into learning honing techniques and its improvement, you'd probably be surprised. And what we have come up with is a method that a relatively new member can take and use and get a result from, 99.9% of the time. No one claims there are not more sophisticated ways. No one claims there is only one way. But we certainly do reserve the right to claim that a technique is potentially dangerous if undertaken by the unwary.

Personally, based on this video, I can see how you could do things this way. My criticisms would be: (1) Why waste metal by creating a burr when you can get away with not?; (2) I do not think he polishes enough. But in the end, there is very little he is doing that is in any way new. He is rubbing metal on abrasive to make it sharp. The devil is in the details IMO.

James.

That's the spirit. Thank you, James. I only wish that the whole discussion was at this level. I haven't ever said that his approach should not be questioned, everything should be, in fact.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

No one claims there are not more sophisticated ways. No one claims there is only one way. But we certainly do reserve the right to claim that a technique is potentially dangerous if undertaken by the unwary.

Okay, that sounds, what can I say, way more mature than things you could read here...

Originally Posted by Jimbo

The devil is in the details IMO.

That was exactly the point I was trying to make. And hell knows, maybe his details make it work?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Let's take this back to honing instead of getting personal...

Perhaps you could enlighten all of us on how you got this system to work for you, what razors you tried it on, and how well you tested it against your old system (tell us what that is too also please) and why you think it is a good system...

I am of course assuming that you have tested Murray's system on at least a few razors?????

Hello?? Where did you Glen saw me saying I did use "the system"? I haven't. Hence, I couldn't say it was good. What I'd love to see at the "major shaving forum" is a little more open mindedness, while it turns out that if someone does things in an unorthodox (widely accepted, or whatever we call it) way, is instantly thrown cheap jokes at.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

ps: How did you overcome the problem of raising a burr and then smoothing that out without wasting excess steel ???? and why did you do that in the first place ???? Honestly I am a bit confused on that as one spot I hear burr and another I don't :shrug: I would especially like to hear how it did on older heavier grinds like the Sheffielders???

And you're asking to get this back to honing and not personal, by trying to provoke my display of "how much I feel competent about honing". Wow.

regards,
Matt

Originally Posted by matisso

Has anyone actually tried his edge? Most of you folks are true mockery masters.

"He who does things other way than ours, is worth nothing but laughter and pity." You should add that motto right below the logo. And consider changing the name to Straight Razor Hate. For real.

Matt

yes I have shaved off a 6k king, it was ok but 8k edge is better, and 12k even better and then you can go higher if you want and it is even better, do you see where I am going?

What I'd love to see at the "major shaving forum" is a little more open mindedness, while it turns out that if someone does things in an unorthodox

As far as I am concerned everything would have been fine with the video statement if Carter would just hone the razor strop and shave, the way it is done. As soon as he started talking about raising burrs all the open-mindedness went out the window for me. You know if you have any experience sharpening knives you would know that every time the knife gets dull the recipe for sharpening is raise a bur when resetting the bevel, then finish as high as you fancy. If you do that to a razor you will have a useless piece of steel in a few years. I hope you are aware that a razor with proper care can last a life time at least? Carter just sharpens as he knows does not matter if it s a knife, razor, axe , that is where the problem is, a razor is not a knife, axe, scissors etc, it is a razor.

Originally Posted by matisso

Hello?? Where did you Glen saw me saying I did use "the system"? I haven't. Hence, I couldn't say it was good. What I'd love to see at the "major shaving forum" is a little more open mindedness, while it turns out that if someone does things in an unorthodox (widely accepted, or whatever we call it) way, is instantly thrown cheap jokes at.
And you're asking to get this back to honing and not personal, by trying to provoke my display of "how much I feel competent about honing". Wow.

regards,
Matt

Ahhhhhh
Enough said...
This conversation just lost interest for me, as I am about the steel and the stones, as last time I looked this thread is in the "Honing Forum" but you don't actually want to talk about honing...

BTW every single person that has proposed a "new" system has been subjected to the exact same scrutiny,
Don't think so???
go look at the One Stone Honing thread that Myself and Lynn put up last year... I got hammered on for saying "20 circles" when I should have said "About 20 Circles" heck I even caught flak because I have a beard...

Can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen....

Originally Posted by mainaman

yes I have shaved off a 6k king, it was ok but 8k edge is better, and 12k even better and then you can go higher if you want and it is even better, do you see where I am going?

Yeah, it's as simple as that, no newsprint or a few laps on Cromium Oxide can make a 6k edge suddenly feel good. 6k is 6k, "honemeister" or not.

Originally Posted by mainaman

yes I have shaved off a 6k king, it was ok but 8k edge is better, and 12k even better and then you can go higher if you want and it is even better, do you see where I am going?


As far as I am concerned everything would have been fine with the video statement if Carter would just hone the razor strop and shave, the way it is done. As soon as he started talking about raising burrs all the open-mindedness went out the window for me. You know if you have any experience sharpening knives you would know that every time the knife gets dull the recipe for sharpening is raise a bur when resetting the bevel, then finish as high as you fancy. If you do that to a razor you will have a useless piece of steel in a few years. I hope you are aware that a razor with proper care can last a life time at least? Carter just sharpens as he knows does not matter if it s a knife, razor, axe , that is where the problem is, a razor is not a knife, axe, scissors etc, it is a razor.

Originally Posted by Blix

Yeah, it's as simple as that, no newsprint or a few laps on Cromium Oxide can make a 6k edge suddenly feel good. 6k is 6k, "honemeister" or not.

The 6k is but one part of the problem, which as we all know is easily remedied, the Burr and the Back-honing finishing strokes are even a worse problem... Note here I am putting IME not IMHO I have messed with back-honing quite a bit there is a reason those old farts back in the day told us to hone edge forward... No matter how far we have pushed the traditional methods past where they used to be, there are some things that remain constant...