Thread: I'm not sure what to say about this.

Originally Posted by matisso

What I'd love to see at the "major shaving forum" is a little more open mindedness, while it turns out that if someone does things in an unorthodox (widely accepted, or whatever we call it) way, is instantly thrown cheap jokes at.

Now open mind is one thing, but not every unorthodox idea is worth pursuing.

Here's the problem. As Stefan posted in post #157, every single member who is moderately competent at honing and has used man-made hones has already done this. We all know what kind of an edge a 6k hone produces (we regularly take razors to the limit of this hone, just before the steel starts breaking off into a burr), what kind of roughness a broken off burr produces, how much drawing the blade over soft material (weathered wood, balsa, cork) dulls the edge, how much several stropping passes on paper smooth/sharpen. We know from our own experience what the method does.

The only people who are willing to test this 'new method' are the beginners who have never done it before. For the rest of us there is nothing new on the face of it.

Now, may be there is some special ingredient that makes it work for Mr. Carter, but he does not articulate any such trick. Or, may be it's just something one learns after practice, but to motivate any of us to put in the time, Mr. Carter will have to demonstrate that the end result is worth it, i.e. the edge his produces favorably stacks against what we're accustomed to.

Or, given the steep angle, and the amount of pressure in Mr. Carter's shaving video, consistent with the edges we can produce off 6k level hone, it is much more likely that 'his method', just doesn't work as well as what we in the straight shaving community use.

I can tell on my face the difference that my vintage cordovan strop makes compared to another or my strops, that's the level of sharpness we are talking about.

Again, this is something that probably every single one of us who have honed over few hundred razors has experienced.

Originally Posted by matisso

Hello?? Where did you Glen saw me saying I did use "the system"? I haven't. Hence, I couldn't say it was good. What I'd love to see at the "major shaving forum" is a little more open mindedness, while it turns out that if someone does things in an unorthodox (widely accepted, or whatever we call it) way, is instantly thrown cheap jokes at.
And you're asking to get this back to honing and not personal, by trying to provoke my display of "how much I feel competent about honing". Wow.

regards,
Matt

My 2 cents;
Being new to honing straights, 10 months, I have only honed 42 razors of various ages and styles to a shave ready status.
I have enjoyed and struggled with at times, what has been taught to me by Straight Razor Place. I have struggled not due to ignorance in the art of "Honing"; I have struggled at times because the "Standard" for honing, established at Straight Razor Place, is so high. Input from many men across the world has raised the honing standard at Straight Razor Place and kept it high.
After watching Mr. Carter's videos and taking in as much as I could, without actually being in a one-on-one class with him; I found his techniques to be detrimental to "Progress" in the art of honing and yes , Matisso, honing is an "Art" , not just an entertaining video subject, as Mr. Carter presents it.
"Open mindedness", you ask for? Open mindedness has been shown in this discussion by members willing to attend his offered class, exchange razors with him and the fact that this thread, based on a less than professional honing video, has gone over 150 posts.

Open mindedness has it's place, but should never be allowed to stifle true progress.

All I can say , is if he did his "3 finger test" on one of my razors when I'm finished on the 1k hone , his fingers would be bleeding , a lot .

I still don´t get what this is all about. He did not try to present some "new" or even "exciting" way of honing, and in no way did he say it was superior, since it is certainly not.
He just said his system would work for him, and I think it would work for many others as well. Not because it is the best system that is,
but because it at least does an OK job with minimum effort. Not everyone using a straight razor wants to participate in the pursuit for the perfectly smooth edge.

Like it has been mentioned before, in this very forum, it is possible (but not great!) to shave directly from the Naniwa 3k or 5k.
I can think of several people that would feel fine with that, as long as all they had to do is use a 1k, a 6k and a leather belt.
This is, of course, not what we are looking for. People can be happy shaving with very, very poorly sharpened razors.
I am sure, with enough practice, this system (that is: Sharpening on 1k until sharp [three finger test is looking for a sticky edge], refining on the 6k until smooth [corking, I dunno why] and stropping)
will eventually lead to acceptable shaves. Maybe some Knife guys will be ok with that

And don´t forget that the term burr is as blurry as it gets.
I am kind of a knife guy, besides being into straights. That´s why I do understand what he means,
although I absolutely disagree with the term itself. What knife guys sometimes call a burr,
is not essentially the real wire edge, hanging on the opposite side of the sharpened face.
Sometimes knife guys call a sticky edge, like the one coming from the 1k, a raised burr.
This has to provoke misunderstandings, because we obviously use different termini.
This is only an assumption of course, that might be easily checked if someone talked to him

The only real critique I have for this Video is:
There is a more elegant and much more thorough way of sharpening a razor

all i can say is I'd like to try one of his edges. It may be nice. Personally, if the result is good; who cares how it got there?

Before I've learned of others stopping at the 5k...ish level I may have found this method odd.

If you look carefully at the video , you will see that when he shave tests the edge on his arm or face , he is holding the blade perpendicular to the skin . Which makes it obvious to me that he knows nothing about shaving with a straight razor , never mind honing one . IMHO a total fraud .

Originally Posted by Lesslemming

Not everyone using a straight razor wants to participate in the pursuit for the perfectly smooth edge.

I thought that may be the case too but I really haven't seen any posts on SRP that would support this. Maybe in time we'll see posts from people finishing on King 6k's getting exceptional shaves.

I've tried shaving straight off of a King 6K before. I don't know why anyone would ever stop there. Here is a list of beard removal methods that are more comfortable than shaving off a 6K.

1. A properly honed and stropped straight.
2. A DE or SE safety razor.
3. A cartridge razor, regardless of amount of blades.
4. Cheap disposables.
5. Electric razor.
6. The time I was drinking moonshine and tried to breathe fire.

Those I have known to stop at around 5k area/ 6k, whatever go to a series of pastes next. Not really my cup of tea, but hey...

Originally Posted by rickboone

Those I have known to stop at around 5k area/ 6k, whatever go to a series of pastes next. Not really my cup of tea, but hey...

I believe that was common in Europe ? at one time before the 8k's became more easily & cheaply available.. 2,1 & 0.5 micron pastes followed then leather. I'd be surprised if the old convexed wedges we see haven't had a good pasting. Still, a different process to what was posted.