ONE COTICULE HONING

**Bart** · 05-01-2009, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by BHChieftain

Question about the coticule slurry limiting the keeness-- if it is the case that dragging the edge into the slurry has a dulling effect on the leading edge (in addition to the honing effect on the bezel), why wouldn't reverse honing (leading with the spine vs. the edge) improve keeness in the slurry?

-Chief

I've had the same thought, soon after I find out about the slurry limiting the edge. It didn't work. I guess the garnets popping up from underneath the edge, have about the same effect.

You can easily find out for yourself. Take a razor in good shaving condition and backhone it for 30 laps or so on a Coticule with slurry. Be prepared to re-complete the honing process.

Originally Posted by gary haywood

I have just had shave this morning with barts method the method i did was the same except a thew more laps and i did'nt do back and forth i did x pattern with pressure. The shave was exallant the method worked i will use it again the shave was on one day growth going round the chin was no problem for me that can be a problem if a razor is'nt quite there this ws my second atempt first one was'nt keen enough i no why ,arm hair stage could of been better this time i made sure razor shaved arm hair realy well as could be. thanks to bart it does work if i can do it any one can i did 300 laps to get bevel to shave arm hair i reckon 200 was enough the whole process from dulling to stroping took me 30 minutes thats not to bad. it can take me longer on my 1200 4k 8k bbw yellow. Time is not a problem to me as i enjoy honing.

If bart could advice me on refreshing the razors used with this method i have a rough idea but your advice would be good?
And also if i have a razor that just carn't get up to par.If the bevel has been set already on 1k throught to 4k 8k could i just add 1 layer of tape and then do 30 misty slurry then 50 plain water thanxs gary

Thanks again, for sharing Gary. "Misty slurry", I love that description.

I don't think it really matters how the initial bevel got set, the principle with the secondary bevel will work just the same.

For touching up, I'll make a separate post, 'cause there is a unique feature that we can use to our advantage.

Bart.

**Bart** · 05-01-2009, 09:57 AM

Because there is a narrow bevel, touching up on a Coticule with water is effective.

Over time, the seconday bevel will grow, and will become out of "refining reach" of the Coticule with water.

The great thing is that you don't have to start all over again. Because honing without tape on the Coticule with slurry, enlarges the initial bevel and diminishes the secondary bevel. It would be helpful to have magnification. I can't say much yet about how many laps would be required to dimininish the secondary bevel enough to bring it within range again. My starting point would be the typical 30. I'm talking about regular low pressured X-strokes.

Unless you would chip the edge by accident, there's no real need to ever reset the entire initial bevel. Only to reduce the width of the secondary bevel, whenever that becomes a necesity to touch up with a taped spine on a Coticule with water.

Best regards,
Bart.

**gary haywood** · 05-01-2009, 12:58 PM

Bart so basicly i could retape and perform say 30 laps on water and this would hopefully refresh the edge?For a while.
otherwise i could hone on slurry and probably use black marker and hone untill marker is removed from the very edge in the past i have foundmaker remaining at the very edge would mean i have a double bevel.Which i have. Once marker is fully removed this would mean i have one bevel. Then i could retape and do 30 misty slurry laps an then 50 water

Would you agree?

when i say shave was good i'd say it is the best edge i have had of this razor. I have tyed 1 layer of tape on my razor before but it did'nt seem to work for me maybe i needed more laps to get there . I am going to try on my 7/8 flami.

**Bart** · 05-01-2009, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by gary haywood

Bart so basicly i could retape and perform say 30 laps on water and this would hopefully refresh the edge?For a while.

Yes, that should be effective for a number of touch-ups.

Originally Posted by gary haywood

otherwise i could hone on slurry and probably use black marker and hone untill marker is removed from the very edge in the past i have foundmaker remaining at the very edge would mean i have a double bevel.Which i have. Once marker is fully removed this would mean i have one bevel. Then i could retape and do 30 misty slurry laps an then 50 water

That's not what I meant with my previous post. If you needed to rehone the razor, you could do the entire procedure over again. No marker needed. Just stay on slurry without tape till you can shave arm hair again. (after the downstroke on glass).
But this is only needed when the edge has really deteriorated, with microchips and such. If the edge is still fine, only a bit dull and the secondary bevel has grown overly large from previous touch-ups, all you need to do is reduce its width. As I explained in my previous post, this can be done by honing on slurry without tape. This enlarges the first bevel, and by consequence, reduces the second bevel, without actually touching the very tip of the edge. You don't need to work till the secondary bevel is completely honed out. What would be the purpose of that, if we're going to just recreate it? That would only be a waist of steel. As soon as the secondary bevel has shrunk enough, you can attach the layer of tape and perform the touch-up on the Coticule with water. This time, it will be effective, because it's small enough again.

That's the theory. I haven't had need for a touch-up on one of the razors I honed with this new method. But I believe that it would work that way.

Best regards,
Bart.

Originally Posted by gary haywood

when i say shave was good i'd say it is the best edge i have had of this razor.

For me, this method delivers among the best edges I ever had on the razors I tried it on.

Good luck with the 7/8, and thanks again for sharing your results, Gary.

Bart.

**Carioca** · 05-01-2009, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by gssixgun

For those of you that haven't been around for a long time this happened a few years back when certain "rebels" talked about using progressive honing techniques instead of pyramids...

Pyramids? A newbie is confused... This place is huge!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The one side honing technique has actually been around for quite awhile too, doing laps on one side of the razor than switching to the other, in fact look for Toxik's vid, he shows that exact same technique...

The Japanese Honing techniques have also been around for years for razors and longer in general. Some people call it different names but it is still the same technique..

I would appreciate it, if there is a friendly person here who would kindly show me Toxik's vid.

I'm having a hard time! I always thought there is only one honing-method and English is not my native language... I am never sure if what I read/ what I unterstand is actually what's meant.

**StraightRazorDave** · 05-01-2009, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Carioca

I would appreciate it, if there is a friendly person here who would kindly show me Toxik's vid.

I believe this is these are the videos that are referred to. This is the first one, it's a series of 5 I believe: YouTube - Straight Razor Honing - Part 1: Intro

**JCitron** · 05-01-2009, 03:31 PM

The pyramids are where rather than starting with a low grit a working up in the progression you go back and forth between 2 different grits.

The Norton 4k/8k is the most commonly used hone for this. You're basically honing some on the lower grit, and then smoothing with the higher grit.

For example one lap on the 4K then 5 on the 8K to smooth the scratches. Then 2 on the 4K and another 5 on the 8K. It would look something like 1/5, 1/5, 3/5, 5/5, 3/5, 3/5, 1/5....etc. (Taken from the wiki.)

The idea being to slowly work up on the edge so you don't over hone.

**JimmyHAD** · 05-01-2009, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Carioca

Pyramids? A newbie is confused... This place is huge!

It is highly recommended to go to the SRP Wiki and check out the honing section. Here is the tutorial on pyramids. I have used both the progressive and the pyramid methods. The pyramid method is recommended for new honers as it is said to be harder to overhone. Overhoning leads to an edge which will quickly break down and crumble. Underhoning (not enough) seems to be more commen than overhoning (too much). Particularly not adaquately setting the bevel.

I have found for me that pyramid honing on the Nortons or Shapton pros is a very effective method. I use the progressive method too but probably the pyramid more often. Depends on my mood, which hones and which razor. Each of us has to experiment with what works for us. That is part of what makes it fun once you accept that it isn't going to be quick and easy.

**sebell** · 05-01-2009, 04:41 PM

Pyramids are also great when you get to the
point where 10 passes on the 8k don't get
the razor to 8k sharpness in a progressive
series -- you can easily do some pyramids
between the 4 and the 8k to get the razor
right up to 8k sharpness.

From that point onwards, however, it's just
a matter of polishing the bevel, so I don't find
pyramids to be as useful in the higher grits.

- Scott

**JimmyHAD** · 05-01-2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by sebell

Pyramids are also great when you get to the
point where 10 passes on the 8k don't get
the razor to 8k sharpness in a progressive
series -- you can easily do some pyramids
between the 4 and the 8k to get the razor
right up to 8k sharpness.

From that point onwards, however, it's just
a matter of polishing the bevel, so I don't find
pyramids to be as useful in the higher grits.

- Scott

In a way a natural coticule or a yellow and BBW can be used in a pyramid fashion like a Norton 4/8. Bart has pointed out in another thread that you can go back to the BBW with light slurry following finishing on the yellow if you want more keeness and than back to the yellow with water. I have done the equivelent of a pyramid with my favorite natural. A big 8x3.

I agree with you as to getting past the 8k stage. Then it becomes a question of which finisher or finishers depending on how far you want to go..... 12k, 15k an Escher or whatever.

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