Thread: ONE COTICULE HONING

Originally Posted by Bart

Yes, that should be effective for a number of touch-ups.

That's not what I meant with my previous post. If you needed to rehone the razor, you could do the entire procedure over again. No marker needed. Just stay on slurry without tape till you can shave arm hair again. (after the downstroke on glass).
But this is only needed when the edge has really deteriorated, with microchips and such. If the edge is still fine, only a bit dull and the secondary bevel has grown overly large from previous touch-ups, all you need to do is reduce its width. As I explained in my previous post, this can be done by honing on slurry without tape. This enlarges the first bevel, and by consequence, reduces the second bevel, without actually touching the very tip of the edge. You don't need to work till the secondary bevel is completely honed out. What would be the purpose of that, if we're going to just recreate it? That would only be a waist of steel. As soon as the secondary bevel has shrunk enough, you can attach the layer of tape and perform the touch-up on the Coticule with water. This time, it will be effective, because it's small enough again.

That's the theory. I haven't had need for a touch-up on one of the razors I honed with this new method. But I believe that it would work that way.

Best regards,
Bart.


For me, this method delivers among the best edges I ever had on the razors I tried it on.

Good luck with the 7/8, and thanks again for sharing your results, Gary.

Bart.

Right i get you now, when second bevel becomes larger just hone with out tape on light slurry to shorten the secondery bevel then yellow with water plus add tape then just keep refreshing on water coticule with one piece of tape. does this apply to any razor with secondary bevel.

Originally Posted by gary haywood

Right i get you now, when second bevel becomes larger just hone with out tape on light slurry to shorten the secondery bevel then yellow with water plus add tape then just keep refreshing on water coticule with one piece of tape. does this apply to any razor with secondary bevel.

Yes, exactly. You put in 3 lines what takes me 33 to explain.

Excuse Gary and me for the of topic intrusion, guys. Please continue as you were.

Bart.

Originally Posted by rodb

Thanks for the experiments with Coticules. The more tools and methods the better for us.

I bought two more razors at an antique store today and I'll try this method on them. I'll post the results later today or tomorrow.

Rod

I got very good results on the antique store razors, one was basically a butter knife, the other would take off arm hair. After honing the John Pritzlaff Everkeen 11/16 (butter knife) passed the hht and gave a VERY smooth shave. The other one (Union Cutlery, GA, 5/8 full hollow) passed the hht and seems like it will shave very well.

Rod

Originally Posted by rodb

I got very good results on the antique store razors, one was basically a butter knife, the other would take off arm hair. After honing the John Pritzlaff Everkeen 11/16 (butter knife) passed the hht and gave a VERY smooth shave. The other one (Union Cutlery, GA, 5/8 full hollow) passed the hht and seems like it will shave very well.

Rod

I just did a NOS 7/8 Friodur myself. It took 4 sets of 30 laps to get the initial bevel (step3). Total honing time, without rushing, less than 15 minutes. Easily passed the HHT right off the hone, and it fells hair silently now that I stropped it.
Time to lather up and shave.
[edit: the shave was outstanding. Close & smooth with the typical no irritation Coticule feel]

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

I just did a NOS 7/8 Friodur myself. It took 4 sets of 30 laps to get the initial bevel (step3). Total honing time, without rushing, less than 15 minutes. Easily passed the HHT right off the hone, and it fells hair silently now that I stropped it.
Time to lather up and shave.

Bart.

For the 11/16 that was dull, on my step 3 I did the 30 and tested, after that I did 3 set of 10 laps with testing in between. For step 4 I did the 30 plus 10. All in all probably 20 mins to sharp.

My coticule (6 x 1 1/2) is one of the pinkish ones, it seems like a fast cutter.

I just got in an old vintage bbw/coticule glued combo I won on ebay recently. I lapped it up and I was anxious to put it to use, so I figured it was a great time to try out this method.

I grabbed a problem dubl duck that I've had for a while and haven't been using because it needs to be rehoned. When I was learning to hone, I had thought I got it sharp, didn't like the shave with it, set it aside, and now I'm back to it. I was actually surprised how dull it was considering I had thought it was shave ready when I finished honing it the first time, but I ran it over a beer bottle bottom anyway, which completely dulled it even faster than I expected.

I got to work with the method. I tried the 30/30 diagonal method and I was having a hard time with it, so I switched it up for the next 30 to just regular X's with moderate pressure. I guess this particular coticule is a fast cutter because after ~10 strokes the slurry starts to darken and by 30 it's nearly black. Because of this I refreshed the slurry pretty often. To be honest, I stopped counting 30 strokes at a time and just kept going at it, feeling it along the way and seeing how it shaved arm hair along the length of the blade, but if I had to guess, it was a total of around 120-150 strokes. The heel needed some real work as when I bought it there was uneven hone wear (there still is, in fact).

Anyway, I was able to get it shaving arm/leg hair effortlessly, so I moved on to a lighter slurry, 30 light strokes. Followed by the taped 30 strokes on an even lighter slurry (just about pure water), followed by 50 strokes with only water.

I have to say I was very surprised how sharp the edge was! Easily popping leg hair above the skin. I've never had much luck with the HHT, but this one was catching and popping hair just like the sharpest blades I like best. After stropping, it was even sharper. Definitely up to my current level of sharpness standards. I'm thinking it's going to give a great shave tomorrow morning.

I have to admit, I kind of enjoyed using just the one stone!

Thanks again for this great post, Bart! (And sorry this post was so detailed and long).

Thanks pjrage, me loves to read detailed honing reports .

I guess, for a guy with decent X-strokes firmly locked in muscle memory, it can be awkward to do the b&f strokes. As you found out, it doesn't really matter what strokes you use, as long as you hit the sharpness threshold of the Coticule with slurry while achieving flat bevel faces, something the beer bottle trick makes sure of. (yes, it indeed is amazing how one light stroke on glass completely removes all shaving abilities).

Best regards,
Bart.

Originally Posted by pjrage

I guess this particular coticule is a fast cutter because after ~10 strokes the slurry starts to darken and by 30 it's nearly black. Because of this I refreshed the slurry pretty often.

Hey pjrage,

just thought I'd mention, there's really no need to refresh the slurry. When there's slurry present, that also abrades the surface of the stone and releases fresh garnets. It might not look as pretty as fresh slurry, but it cuts just as nice. Only at the final strokes, when you aim for the maximum you can get, there might be an advantage in washing away all the swarf and finish the bevel stage on reasonably clean slurry. (I'm not even sure if that's such a big deal).

Best regards,
Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

Hey pjrage,

just thought I'd mention, there's really no need to refresh the slurry. When there's slurry present, that also abrades the surface of the stone and releases fresh garnets. It might not look as pretty as fresh slurry, but it cuts just as nice. Only at the final strokes, when you aim for the maximum you can get, there might be an advantage in washing away all the swarf and finish the bevel stage on reasonably clean slurry. (I'm not even sure if that's such a big deal).

Best regards,
Bart.

Thanks Bart. I wasn't sure if the swarf was good, bad, or indifferent for it, so I just figured better safe than sorry. Does noticeable swarf after ~10 strokes, and very dark near black swarf after ~30x mean it's a fast coticule btw? I don't have much basis for comparison, so I'm just curious if that's normal, fast, super fast, or whatever.

Also, how about when the slurry starts to go very dry after numerous passes? Should I refresh it then? It starts to get to the point that it looks and feels like I'm honing on a just-about-dry hone with sand on it.

Originally Posted by pjrage

I just got in an old vintage bbw/coticule glued combo I won on ebay recently. I lapped it up and I was anxious to put it to use, so I figured it was a great time to try out this method.

I grabbed a problem dubl duck that I've had for a while and haven't been using because it needs to be rehoned. When I was learning to hone, I had thought I got it sharp, didn't like the shave with it, set it aside, and now I'm back to it. I was actually surprised how dull it was considering I had thought it was shave ready when I finished honing it the first time, but I ran it over a beer bottle bottom anyway, which completely dulled it even faster than I expected.

I got to work with the method. I tried the 30/30 diagonal method and I was having a hard time with it, so I switched it up for the next 30 to just regular X's with moderate pressure. I guess this particular coticule is a fast cutter because after ~10 strokes the slurry starts to darken and by 30 it's nearly black. Because of this I refreshed the slurry pretty often. To be honest, I stopped counting 30 strokes at a time and just kept going at it, feeling it along the way and seeing how it shaved arm hair along the length of the blade, but if I had to guess, it was a total of around 120-150 strokes. The heel needed some real work as when I bought it there was uneven hone wear (there still is, in fact).

Anyway, I was able to get it shaving arm/leg hair effortlessly, so I moved on to a lighter slurry, 30 light strokes. Followed by the taped 30 strokes on an even lighter slurry (just about pure water), followed by 50 strokes with only water.

I have to say I was very surprised how sharp the edge was! Easily popping leg hair above the skin. I've never had much luck with the HHT, but this one was catching and popping hair just like the sharpest blades I like best. After stropping, it was even sharper. Definitely up to my current level of sharpness standards. I'm thinking it's going to give a great shave tomorrow morning.

I have to admit, I kind of enjoyed using just the one stone!

Thanks again for this great post, Bart! (And sorry this post was so detailed and long).

I tyed back and forth first time and normal x second time i felt more at home with normal x but as you found the hht passes straight of the hone it did for me.

Bart if i have a blade that is shaving ok could i tape spine and perform say 30 to 50 strokes on water with out having to start from dulling. for example say i've honed a blade up and it shaves but not outstanding with say bbw slurry/yellow water method which i realy like using because its realy easy and no messing around pluus i like using both. By the way i get very good results maintaining my edges. could i add one layer of tape hit the coti water and end up with same result. I would imagine this would be like adding a double bevel.

Like i said earlier i will try on my 7/8 flami which shaves good but not to the standard i'd like i no it could be better now my tortiose dovo is exallant i want all my razors to be that standard so i find my self comparing blade to blade now. in fact i will try adding one layer of tape to spine do 30 laps and see if the hht improves