Thread: Pres. Obama, between a rock and a hard place.

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

In fairness, I guess I would have to hear more about how free will doesn't exist (the conceptualization can change conclusions). If you mean that there is absolutely no free will, and that actions are reduceable to reactive products of external factors, no one is responsible for their actions. Everything is a result of random factors in a temporal chain. All actions past and present meld into one whole (as far as "meaning" goes), and differentiation between individual events is pointless. My love for my wife becomes a byproduct of society, my attempts to work hard are not really attempts, but reflexive reactions to previous and current events... Essentially we become automatons.

Now that's all fine if this is your philosophy, but lack of free will unavoidably leads to arbitrariness. (yeah it is a real word, had to check it though... Be a good one for scrabble).

Ok, interesting stuff. As I understand it, something that is arbitrary has no principle behind it, no logic.

I don't necessarily think that in a determinist world, we are with out underlying principle or logic. Maybe even the opposite.

I haven't explained that very well.

Originally Posted by pio

that would be perfect if it was how the US worked...
sadly thats not OUR reality...
the big business will either destroy the new guys, take over them, or make them one...some call that greed...some call that capitalism...

reality is...Oil deregulation cause the $4+ gas prices...and will cause the 100$ per soon...

reality is deregulation caused the Mortgages meltdown...

While we are both so far off topic it's silly, again, I can not agree with you. Those assumptions are not substantiated. I could just as easily say that the mortgage crisis came because money was being lent to those who could never afford to pay it back, and because government got in the way of the market. And it IS how things would work here if the government didn't prop up failed institutions. Again, if there is a legitimate market and a good product that people want, entrepreneurial ventures work.

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

While we are both so far off topic it's silly, again, I can not agree with you. Those assumptions are not substantiated. I could just as easily say that the mortgage crisis came because money was being lent to those who could never afford to pay it back, and because government got in the way of the market. And it IS how things would work here if the government didn't prop up failed institutions. Again, if there is a legitimate market and a good product that people want, entrepreneurial ventures work.

yes we are WAY off topic here...
anyway...look up what cause the mortgage meltdown...
it was cause by a combination of greed and deregulation...

no one was regulating the loans and what the banks did with them...

the market was so good they assume incorrectly they could reposes the houses of people who couldn't afford them and resell them for profit...
people were "investing" on loans (something the deregulated market created), banks put packages of "bad loans" (balloon loans...low interest first-high interest later) and sold them as investment...they made money screwing other people...and now we call that toxic loans...

guess what happened?
BACKFIRE...

but...believe that some wealthy banker became wealthier and a poor family became poorer...and without a home...i'm not making this up...
this is a FACT as real as there is a sky, sun and a moon...
this is not about right, left or the middle...
we need to learn from our mistakes so we would not repeat em!

All superfluous BS aside. It boils down to you. What are you going to do today ...right now to hold the fabric of man together?

In stead of taking the time to critique the actions of another for whatever; Do you have time today to document how you have actually helped your fellow man? Did you rush to check out at the store, or did you say hmmm, he/she might be in a hurry. Did you curse under your breathe at that old guy, or did you ask him if you could help him out?

I think if you gave me a moment or two I could fault anything. I won't fault the ability of man to rise to our full potential to enjoy the full gift of life.

By the way. If this is life...There WILL be bad days.

All you have is the moment, and I hope that you enjoyed it because it just passed into the past. It is not taking life one day at a time. One day at a time is all that you get. Use it wisely.

Peace.

Originally Posted by JMS

Wife: "oh look honey, that man over there is hitting that lady. she's bleeding all over the place!"

Husband: "Turn away dear and pretend you didn't see anything. We have enough problems."

OR

Wife--Look ,,,there are two rattlesnakes in a pit fighting,,
and one is killing the other!

Husband--Let them fight to the death.
It matters not who wins and who dies.
Because either will strike you if you reach your hand into the pit.

Originally Posted by willy

OR

Wife--Look ,,,there are two rattlesnakes in a pit fighting,,
and one is killing the other!

Husband--Let them fight to the death.
It matters not who wins and who dies.
Because either will strike you if you reach your hand into the pit.

willy, you are twisting my meaning, and if pios post that I was responding to had the same tenor as your post I would be agreeing with him instead.

I admire all who have served in the military and they have indeed protected the US. However, my family has had someone in every American war including prior to the Revolution. There are a few facts though that we have to be honest about. The best and brightest are not wanted in the military. Many of my friends who are extraordinarily intelligent nor myself would join the military because we refused to be commanded by anyone much less idiots who have never fought a war and yet are commanding this one. That is often the situation and hence when the US has drafted soldiers, they have always picked young guys in their late teens because they were weak minded enough to be controlled. The same situation holds true for enlisted men today. Our commanders in D.C orders them to go and get themselves killed and to only kill if fired upon first. If President Bush's daughters and the Joint Chiefs of staff were in the field with their weapons leading the men (as they should be) and not in a nice quiet office in D.C. There would never have been a Vietnam or Iraq war. Every opinion expressed here has as much merit as mine because for every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, logical, and WRONG! I don't care what happens with the world at this point and a close high school friend who joined the Navy has assured me that many more men have died than the military tells us about. Let Iran, Israel, China, and everyone else take care of themselves. Start making fair trade by demanding that Japan buy a vehicle out of Detroit for every car we allow them to sell here. Bring the soldiers home. Cut the size of the Military, increase the pay of enlisted men by 400% and keep the officers pay the same, and put the money in their protection and pockets instead of defense contractors who only promote war to make themselves rich. I do not want another US soldier to die on foreign soil unless the enemy is moving to invade or attack us. If a country can't defend themselves then that id tough and its part of evolution. If the U.S. will eave the world alone and then tell our enemies if you attack us your society will be erased form history because everyone of your group will be dead, then people will leave us alone and the world can have peace. We can't control the world. BEsides, if an enemy moves to invade, we are well armed, and I can assure you that if a foreign invader comes to occupy Georgia, I will head home and be prepared to do whatever is necessary to protect it. I was blessed to be born in the United States and having traveled a bit and lived outside the US for two years I can say that there is not place with as much opportunity. But we need to start protecting our own LEGAL citizens and stop thinking that we can save the world. So, I agree with the person quoting Roosevelt. The patriots fought the British until they left, and if the Iranian people want to live in fear of a Dictator, fine. If they want something better or more, then they better pick up their own arms and prepare to spill their own blood because freedom is not free and claiming "we do not have arms" is no excuse.

I'm just saying that it doesn't matter who is right or wrong or who wins or loses in Iran.
And NOT doing ANYTHING is a good thing!
I think obama likes who is in power in Iran now because of their stand on Israel.
But whatever the reason is, on why the USA isn't stepping into the fray in Iran doesn't matter as long as we stay out of it.
Let Iran take care of themselves.
We don't even know if the elections were rigged or not.
Might just be a bunch of sore losers in the streets.

Originally Posted by willy

OR

Wife--Look ,,,there are two rattlesnakes in a pit fighting,,
and one is killing the other!

Husband--Let them fight to the death.
It matters not who wins and who dies.
Because either will strike you if you reach your hand into the pit.

that's either utter nonsense or the deepest thing I've read in a while. still not sure which.

I would posit that it's everyone's job to take care of themselves and that an honorable man/women would never ask for the help of another.

Originally Posted by jockeys

that's either utter nonsense or the deepest thing I've read in a while. still not sure which.

I would posit that it's everyone's job to take care of themselves and that an honorable man/women would never ask for the help of another.

You have to deal with the help and no help on a case by case...
when you, personally, can help someone in need, its your decision and you do what you want. But when your take decisions for other people, its a different game...