Thread: BIN LADEN Killed by US forces.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't disagree with the gist of your post. However the 2 bolded parts are unfair imo.

The first remark... well it is easy to talk about testicular fortitude if you're on the side that outnumbers and outguns the enemy 10 to 1. Looking at the Lybian population before the UN resolution opened the duck season, they don't lack in courage or will. but all those things are not enough if the enemy comes rolling in with tanks, heavy machine guns, and 'no-prisoners' orders. Plenty of countries are following the lead of Tunesia and Egypt. Not all of them are being succesfull, yet they are still trying.

The second remark... the muslims I know (some of which from those areas) are just people like you and me, trying to live a life. They may have different religious observations. So do jews, Jehova's witnesses and scientology cultists. They're not trying to kill me or convert me.

I think that the muslims of Tunisia, Morocco ... or Belgium are very different from the muslims of Afghanistan.
You talk about people that's not on the edge of the muslim religion, as the talibans who want a Middle Age political, social, cultural.. system.

GI was thinking about some people in a very different environment. Luckily I don't know the war, but I guess that war can change the people deeply

Exactly,
Muslims in the U.S., Spain, or Belgium are very different. To illustrate my point more clearly, let me just ask you to name ONE predominantly Muslim country where Christians and (heaven forbid) Jews are allowed to openly and publicly practice their respective religions in peace without worrying about reprisals from individuals or indeed the government. Short answer, there are none, not one!

By contrast, my country (as does yours I'm sure) takes the stand that how a person worships is not the government's business nor anyone's business other than the individual and God. I may totally disagree with a certain faith (and that's my right) but if me or me and a group of individuals decide we will vandalize the local mosque/synagogue, this type of activity simply is not condoned and will likely land me in jail. In Muslim countries however, state sponsored incarceration, torture and even execution of non-Muslims is fairly commonplace.

We in our haste can only see the small components of the scene;
We cannot tell what incidents will focus on the final screen.
A barrage of disruptive sound, a petal on a sleeping face,
Both must be noted, both must have their place.
It may be that our later selves or else our unborn sons
Will search for meaning in the dust of long deserted guns.
We only watch, and indicate and make our scribbled pencil notes.
We do not wish to moralize, only to ease our dusty throats.

- Donald Bain -

Great news!!! Bin Lade in dead!

RE: His death means nothing

It does mean something. Will there still be people doing things on their own? Sure. But I think there are few people who could do what bin Laden did as far as organizing and recruiting and motivating. That's like saying that the death/removal/retirement of any leader is meaningless. Steve Jobs doesn't manufacture iPhones but you can rest assured that he is very important to the vision and strategy of his company. Take him away and that's quite significant.

RE: He was trained by the CIA

Proof? People who have interviewed him have said there was no need for financial backing from the CIA in the '70s and '80s, and that his anti-American sentiment existed back then. Even if we do believe this questionable claim that "the USA trained him", exactly what role did we have? Teaching him how to fire a gun? I doubt that he took a course on promoting and recruiting people to fly airplanes into buildings. I think this is the same logic as blaming parents, or video games, or movies when a 40-year-old person does something stupid in their lives. Invalid point as far as I'm concerned. Keep the blame and responsibility where it belongs; with the person.

Even if it's just for closure, this is important to many people.

Gentlemen,
How in the world can we be sure if he's dead? Awefull fishy (pun intended) that he was given a quick sea burial...

In all reality the so called death will make him a martyr indeed. He's been "dead" (meaning no longer active) for years, but his legacy is now reborn.

In all reality, IF we did punch his clock, it would have been best to have kept it under wraps...

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Gentlemen,
How in the world can we be sure if he's dead? Awefull fishy (pun intended) that he was given a quick sea burial...

In all reality the so called death will make him a martyr indeed. He's been "dead" (meaning no longer active) for years, but his legacy is now reborn.

In all reality, IF we did punch his clock, it would have been best to have kept it under wraps...

The only things confirmed are what the President said. The "burial at sea" has not been confirmed.

Honestly, given that the political races are getting ramped up, I can only assume that everything possible was done to confirm the claim before sending the President on national TV to make a statement.

Originally Posted by commiecat

RE: His death means nothing

It does mean something. Will there still be people doing things on their own? Sure. But I think there are few people who could do what bin Laden did as far as organizing and recruiting and motivating. That's like saying that the death/removal/retirement of any leader is meaningless. Steve Jobs doesn't manufacture iPhones but you can rest assured that he is very important to the vision and strategy of his company. Take him away and that's quite significant.

RE: He was trained by the CIA

Proof? People who have interviewed him have said there was no need for financial backing from the CIA in the '70s and '80s, and that his anti-American sentiment existed back then. Even if we do believe this questionable claim that "the USA trained him", exactly what role did we have? Teaching him how to fire a gun? I doubt that he took a course on promoting and recruiting people to fly airplanes into buildings. I think this is the same logic as blaming parents, or video games, or movies when a 40-year-old person does something stupid in their lives. Invalid point as far as I'm concerned. Keep the blame and responsibility where it belongs; with the person.

Even if it's just for closure, this is important to many people.

Yes, the Taliban, as a whole were trained by America, as Russia at that time was a mutual enemy. America armed the Taliban as well. America wanted the weapons back at the end of it all, but mostly failed in their efforts. America has paid the greater price for it. America also trained the people who flew the planes. They learnt to do this on American soil. This has been well documented via the media for a while. What more 'proof' is required?! There is no blame to be had in any of this. Unless you're a psychic, you would never have had the foresight to see what was going to happen. It just did, and what the government has done to appease the people, has not really fixed anything. Except maybe given a sense of (mis-guided?) justice.

All you do have is a sense of closure. Nothing more. Sad really, that people are dancing and cheering in the streets. Why not hold a huge placard up that reads, 'I hate effing Muslims and I dare ya to come and blow something else up!' I would alsmost guarantee that they will try. Wouldn't you if the tables were turned?!


Mick

Originally Posted by commiecat

The only things confirmed are what the President said. The "burial at sea" has not been confirmed.

Honestly, given that the political races are getting ramped up, I can only assume that everything possible was done to confirm the claim before sending the President on national TV to make a statement.

You can assume what you like, but it wouldn't be the first time a politician has lied to the people of a nation, if that is the case. Not saying he has or will. Just saying. I am in agreement with shooter here. I hope to see proof.


Mick