Thread: Are you "Furious".

Originally Posted by honedright

I think what UWPete possibly means is that the $203,000 you paid into the program is spent, gone, kaput. In order for you to get any of that back requires the SSA to take funds from other peoples paychecks and give it to you, and me, and everyone else who paid into the program. That could be seen as a hand-out since the government is taking away from one person and handing it over to another. The problem with Ponzi schemes is that someone always gets screwed in the end.

I see we're at misrepresentations and setting up straw men, so I'll jump in with my contribution.

I guess your advice is for everybody to keep their hard earned dollars under the mattress or in a safe deposit box - you surely don't want to 'invest them', or give them to a bank to lend to others, otherwise when you come back for it they'll give you somebody else's money and that's gotta be a Ponzi scheme!

I've got to say that if you're relying on somebody's labeling to tell if you're getting screwed up, you're pretty much doomed. The only chance of not getting screwed is by using your brain to figure out how something is working and understand where the problems really are.
The problem with SSA is not that it's a Ponzi scheme, because it isn't. The problem is that it pays out more money than it should. But that's hardly something specific to it, or to just government programs.

They are paying out more than planned on because people are living longer.
The way I look at it is:it will take 8ish yrs for me to get what I put into SS.
BUT,they are not paying me any interest on that money,ZERO, so to get it,I have to live longer,simple.

Originally Posted by gugi

I see we're at misrepresentations and setting up straw men, so I'll jump in with my contribution.

I guess your advice is for everybody to keep their hard earned dollars under the mattress or in a safe deposit box - you surely don't want to 'invest them', or give them to a bank to lend to others, otherwise when you come back for it they'll give you somebody else's money and that's gotta be a Ponzi scheme!

I've got to say that if you're relying on somebody's labeling to tell if you're getting screwed up, you're pretty much doomed. The only chance of not getting screwed is by using your brain to figure out how something is working and understand where the problems really are.
The problem with SSA is not that it's a Ponzi scheme, because it isn't. The problem is that it pays out more money than it should. But that's hardly something specific to it, or to just government programs.

You are guessing my advice?? Guess again! LOL!

Comparing Social Security to a voluntary financial investment is like, well

Originally Posted by gugi

Glove relates to Hand the same way as
(A) Condom relates to Banana
(B) Whiskey relates to Bottle
(C) Cigar relates to Lewinsky
(D) Head relates to A$$

Originally Posted by honedright

You are guessing my advice?? Guess again! LOL!

Hey, I just joined along the same game you wanted to play. If you don't like the bears don't go in the woods.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

They are paying out more than planned on because people are living longer.
The way I look at it is:it will take 8ish yrs for me to get what I put into SS.
BUT,they are not paying me any interest on that money,ZERO, so to get it,I have to live longer,simple.

But nobody is supposed to get as much as they put in. This isn't an individual investment, it's is a safety net for the society as a whole. The way to keep it solvent is to keep the average pay out in line with the average take in (plus any gains, minus any losses and administrative costs). Everybody pays for the military and the police, but not everybody gets the same benefit out of them.
If the society doesn't like these programs it's very easy to stop them. All it takes is to vote accordingly - in fact, from my understanding of the american political system, it only takes a simple majority in the legislature and big enough balls to remove the filibuster on the first day of the new session.
But despite all the posturing and grandstanding SSA is still here, and it doesn't look like it's going away.

Interesting.

Should we cut off the gun walker's/runner's social security after the dead folks vote to keep it afloat??

gugi
SS as you well know is a forced,so called investment,one that when I die is null and void,even my wife who helped fund it cannot get a dime from it,if I die before I get back what I put into it,thats wrong.
I did not elect to pay SS,I had no choice,The entire SS System is slated to go bankrupt by 2030.

Originally Posted by gugi

But nobody is supposed to get as much as they put in.

Further reason why it was a bad idea to begin with. No one expects to get less than what they paid for.

Originally Posted by gugi

This isn't an individual investment, it's is a safety net for the society as a whole.

Or a safety net full of holes...

Originally Posted by gugi

Everybody pays for the military and the police, but not everybody gets the same benefit out of them.

I disagree. First, not everybody pays. Secondly, everybody benefits from national defense. Whether or not our armed forces are utilized appropriately is another matter.

Originally Posted by gugi

If the society doesn't like these programs it's very easy to stop them. All it takes is to vote accordingly - in fact, from my understanding of the american political system, it only takes a simple majority in the legislature and big enough balls to remove the filibuster on the first day of the new session.
But despite all the posturing and grandstanding SSA is still here, and it doesn't look like it's going away.

Time will tell.

Originally Posted by honedright

Further reason why it was a bad idea to begin with. No one expects to get less than what they paid for.

I disagree. First, not everybody pays. Secondly, everybody benefits from national defense. Whether or not our armed forces are utilized appropriately is another matter.

Everybody benefits from the safety net as well, just not in the same degree. I live in a nice town and good neighborhood and I'm this subsidizing the policing of all the bad neighborhoods. Same with the military - I am safe here in USA and don't have to pay for the protection and safety of people on the other end of the world who are too poor to run their own military. I'd rather stop subsidizing these people and pay only for this country's protection. After all it's a continent surrounded by oceans on two sides, weaklings on one side, and much poorer inadequately armed and trained people on the third - should be a piece of cake.
Or infrastructure - why can't it be paid proportionately by those who use it - all roads and highways should be either private, or financed by a tax on fuel and nothing more. In fact scratch that tax thing - it all should be tolls, otherwise there is the danger of cross-generational transfer of wealth. And speaking of generations children should be required by law pay their parents the cost of all those years they've been freeloading, plus a hefty sum for the act of being conceived and born.

Surely if you don't expect to get back less from anything that you put in it's time to show some ideological purity and be consistent to absurd.