Thread: Whats your opinion on automatic weapons?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Finally we agree 100% everything else is total Lipservice...

Oh, somehow I find that rather difficult to believe..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Most gun owners agree that there should be laws, and actually have no problem with most of them, the problem we have is that everytime some "Mental Moron" uses one badly, the outcry for more laws is thrown out there... We push back by saying you didn't enforce the existing laws, why do you want more ...

Then it dies down and everyone forgets on both sides of the fence...

i'm not that naive to believe that any law would prevent crazy people doing what they are up to. Sadly every time such terrible accidents like school shootings, Utoya or Denver happens, both anti-gun and pro-gun folks can use these very same incidents to support their own views.
Then everyone forgets, nothing gets done, as nobody really knows what should be done until the next time.
Gun laws do not stop maniacs but they have prevented or at least reduced a lot of violence here.

"Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;"

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Most gun owners agree that there should be laws, and actually have no problem with most of them, the problem we have is that everytime some "Mental Moron" uses one badly, the outcry for more laws is thrown out there... We push back by saying you didn't enforce the existing laws, why do you want more ...

Then it dies down and everyone forgets on both sides of the fence...


The worst part of this last incident is that he might very well get away with a Diminished Capacity verdict, Colorado is a pretty tough on crime state and has, and uses the Death Penalty so perhaps not... time will tell

Glen, that is exactly the point. Just enforce the laws already on the books and have a judicial system that does not plea bargain serious gun charges down to a lower offense. As a liberal minded person and gun owner the call for more and stricter gun laws is getting rather stupid when you can't seem to properly enforce those already on the books. Other serious causes need more looking into as a priorty.

Bob

Originally Posted by Birnando

Then enforcement of said laws are, in lack of a better word, somewhat underwhelming...
I know that old addage by heart now, spending time here kinda ensures that
The fault of that addage is obvious though.
If only mad gang-bangers and psyco's (illegal guns) where the reason for all the murders in those often repeated stats we all throw around, then you'd be completely right.
But that is not the case.
The fact is that a lot of accidents and mishaps are reported each year, both here and over there.
For those alone, a reduction of the armed portion of any society is a most splendid idea. You know, to me that is
Another reason to abandon guns are of course to reduce those killings where one looses their head and does something they will spend the rest of their lives regretting behind bars.

Will that stop killing? most certainly not.
Hovewer, will it reduce it quite noticeably? Yes, I do think so.
You all should try it out, imagine if we libtards are actually right?

Now lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya guys

DING DING DING!!!!! Now give THIS man a prize. The existing laws are seldom enforced (and outright broken by our own Govt. ie; "Fast and Furious") So do tell, kind Sir how more laws will be the magic bandaid on this? I remember when I worked at my local PD, I had ATF refusals come across my desk. I promptly reported them to the acting Chief. He said "we normally just throw those away". I said "WHAT?!?!?!?!" This is a felon attempting to buy a firearm, a crime in it's own right. 5 years last time I checked. This happened a few times. I was the ridiculed for it and mildly harrassed for my wanting to do the right thing.

Originally Posted by EMC45

DING DING DING!!!!! Now give THIS man a prize. The existing laws are seldom enforced (and outright broken by our own Govt. ie; "Fast and Furious") So do tell, kind Sir how more laws will be the magic bandaid on this?

I do hope I haven't instilled in you the impression that just adding more laws, without enforcing them is the answer.
If so, I apologize.
Just to be clear, I would ideally like, not just in the US, but everywhere, restrictive gun laws, enforced to the fullest extent!

One law would reduce gun crime if it was enforced properly "It is now illegal to own a gun". PERIOD. Well actually theoretically this isn't true, initially it would increase gun crime because people would be arrested for flouting the new law. After this initial increase, a couple of decades later (yes sometimes laws are implimented to make the future a better place), your gun crime stats would look like ours here in the UK. We have illegal weapons on the streets, but there are very few (relative to the population) and the deaths as a result of these weapons is minimal.

However, laws DO need to be enforced all over the world. This would change soceity, it would also increase the burden on the forces across the globe. I think that could be why they aren't enforced as rigerously as people would like. I am sorry you were ridiculed for trying to do the right thing, I am glad you tried though it restores faith. It really is piss poor that officers of the law just choose what to enforce, it isn't just a job it's a Duty to protect your people.

Would you like gun crime stats (and violent crime stats) like here in the UK, I never thought to ask? It never crossed my mind that I should ask.

I just read an interesting article on wikipedia, (oh I went there lol). The USA's Knife homicide stats aren't a million miles away from the gun homicide stats. That kind of makes me think. What do you guys think about that? (NO WIKIPEDIA BASHING PLEASE it's just a general piece of data)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vio..._United_States
In the graph on the right.

Kind of makes me think maybe ... some people are just evil ...

Originally Posted by EMC45

DING DING DING!!!!! Now give THIS man a prize. The existing laws are seldom enforced (and outright broken by our own Govt. ie; "Fast and Furious") So do tell, kind Sir how more laws will be the magic bandaid on this? I remember when I worked at my local PD, I had ATF refusals come across my desk. I promptly reported them to the acting Chief. He said "we normally just throw those away". I said "WHAT?!?!?!?!" This is a felon attempting to buy a firearm, a crime in it's own right. 5 years last ime I checked. This happened a few times. I was the ridiculed for it and mildly harrassed for my wanting to do the right thing.

Originally Posted by straightrazorheaven

One law would reduce gun crime if it was enforced properly "It is now illegal to own a gun". PERIOD. Well actually theoretically this isn't true, initially it would increase gun crime because people would be arrested for flouting the new law. After this initial increase, a couple of decades later (yes sometimes laws are implimented to make the future a better place), your gun crime stats would look like ours here in the UK. We have illegal weapons on the streets, but there are very few (relative to the population) and the deaths as a result of these weapons is minimal.

Actually if you take the time to look at your Crime rates you will see that your's haven't changed hardly at all, either up or down before, during or after your Gun Grabbing Laws went into effect... Your gun crimes really haven't changed up or down either...

Pretty much Jolly ole England didn't have much gun crime before or after the Gun Ban took effect...


Darn those facts getting in the way again


edit: I take that back the lowest year on record I see for gun crime, was 1992 before the Gun Grabbing of 1998

Originally Posted by Birnando

Then enforcement of said laws are, in lack of a better word, somewhat underwhelming...
The fact is that a lot of accidents and mishaps are reported each year, both here and over there.
For those alone, a reduction of the armed portion of any society is a most splendid idea. You know, to me that is

Firearm misuse causes only a small number of accidental deaths in the U.S.

For example, compared to being accidentally killed by a firearm, you are:
• Five times more likely to burn to death
• Five times more likely to drown
• 17 times more likely to be poisoned
• 17 times more likely to fall
• And 68 times more likely to die in an automobile accident

Fact: In 2007, there were only 54 accidental gun deaths for children under age 13. About 12
times as many children died from drowning during the same period.
190
Fact: In 2007, there were 999 drowning victims and 137 firearm-related accidental deaths from
ages 1-19. Firearms outnumber pools by a factor of over 30:1.

WISQARS Injury Mortality Report, Center for Disease Control, 2007



Obviously measuring the number of crimes that don't happen because the criminal is deterred by a weapon is difficult, but consider this:

There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually. (GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense?)

The potential outcome of many encounters could be devastating. Murder? rape? we'll never know, but I feel that the relatively low threat that accidental gun-deaths pose (which largely are due to parental or individual negligence) is not near great enough to say it's more valuable to limit gun numbers when you consider the possibility for how much good it is doing.

And this may come off as harsh, but consider that some people are plain dumb and reckless and might just as well kill them selves of their children in another type of "accident". Drinking a pint of bleach which was recklessly left in front of a 5 year old, playing with a kitchen knife, or shooting them selves with a gun that was irresponsibly kept.

Hilsen Norges divisjon av NRA

Originally Posted by Birnando

I do hope I haven't instilled in you the impression that just adding more laws, without enforcing them is the answer.
If so, I apologize.
Just to be clear, I would ideally like, not just in the US, but everywhere, restrictive gun laws, enforced to the fullest extent!

Enforced by whom? Heavily armed representatives of the respective country's law enforcement and military communities? And to what extent exactly? Shoot at will if any resistance is encountered? Oh, what happy thoughts! Reminds me of certain situations throughout recent history: Greece, Czechoslovakia, Argentina, Chile, Chiapas (MX), the WWII Nazi occupations of the Netherlands, and even your own country!

Maybe Norwegian LE and MIL forces have a very high standard of conduct and can be trusted to treat the population with fairness and respect at all times - call me paranoid, but I would not say that's true in most of the rest of the world, including the US, and even in an advanced, liberal country such as Germany.

Personally, I'd rather take my chances dealing with "regular" bad guys and psychos than dealing with megalomaniac politicians and their uniformed thugs - chacun à son goût!