Thread: General Annoyance with people

Originally Posted by RichZ

PS Joe what were kids doing in a casino? That is truly beyond me.

Believe it or not, Vegas tries to be a family oriented place these days!

I guess like everything else, it's a money thing... the Casino makes more money if the whole family can visit. We had specifically chosen the Tropicana because they advertised no kids under 18 were allowed to stay there... what we weren't prepared for was they still let kids onto the casino floor, use the pools, eat in the restaurants, and go to the shows up til 9 or 10pm... thankfully, after that, it's adults only. I have no idea where these people/kids came from... probably staying in an RV Park or a Motel 6 and taking the bus to the strip so they could enjoy all the Casino has to offer.

Originally Posted by azjoe

How dare, indeed! When I was a kid my parents would never have allowed me to act like that in the first place... and if I did and it offended anyone, not only would I have had to apologize, but they would have apologized profusely, too... for their lack of control of their kid. Fact is, when I was a kid adults didn't take kids to adult places and functions... and if they did, the kids were made to behave or the parents took them away. Today, parents think nothing of taking small children anyywhere at all hours and let them run free.

Part of it is that life is so different than when I was a kid. It was simple. Adults were respected. Now, kids are in danger from adults, more every day. You can't afford to give all adults an air of superiority. And in your situation, you need to talk to the parents if they're present, unless they don't object to you talking to the kid. It's sad but true.

My youngest is 24, and it was even different when he was growing up, but there were always parents who didn't control their kids in public. It used to be an embarrassment. Today, too many parents seem to accept it and expect the rest of us to put up with it. That's the ultimate insult. Their failing becomes my annoyance.

I have to tell you that having a full time parent has nothing to do with it. Having a responsible parent does. My wife was a teacher and never stopped working when we had children. We had a nanny who was told how we expected the kids to act and treated them the same as we did. When the kids went to school, they always had a mothe there when they came home (she worked in the neighborhood). They met their school responsibilites first and did their activities as well.

We took our kids out often after the age of 4. It's how they learned about theater and restaurants etc., and how to act there. THere was never an issue of misbehaving. They knew what was expected and were not allowed to step out of line. Too many parents forget that they have physical control of the child. The child can and should be removed quietly from a situation as soon as they start misbehaving, not after they've made a scene.

Just yesterday, I was on a 3-4 hour flight home, and behind me was a family with a 2 year old girl that didn't stop acting up for a minute. She never left her seat, but she was sitting with her grandmother, and when she wasn't screaming, she was whining or crying. I finally turned around and quietly spoke to the woman. At first she essentially told me to mind my own business, but then I pointed out that she had made it my business by imposing this child on me. Then she said "What do you expect me to do?". I simply said "I expect you to be a parent." That seemed to embarrass her into acting. She moved the girl over to her and she was quiet for the rest of the trip.

As I said, this is not new. When my wife was a teacher (she's retired from teaching in a solid middle class neighborhood), many parents had the attitude that school was supposed to do everything. They seemed to forget that they had the primary responsibility to make sure the kids did everything they were expected to (especially school). Many were the times that she had to insist on parent cooperation and daily signing of work, and sometimes she needed to get the help of the Principal. She never had a kid she couldn't handle, just problem parents. The Principal even used to send her behavior problems, because he knew they would disappear.

So, the problem parents were always there. We see so much of it today because they're overwhelmed with supporting the family. And young teachers are not really prepared to deal with it, so it only aggravates the problem. They're never taught how to deal with parents, and unless they're really strong it takes time before they have the experience and confidence to do it right. The greatest thing a parent/teacher organization can do is to support the teachers and bring the parents on board early. There's not enough of that.

Originally Posted by azjoe

the Casino makes more money if the whole family can visit. We had specifically chosen the Tropicana because they advertised no kids under 18 were allowed to stay there.

THe problem in Vegas is that the gambling is everywhere. So if you're standing in line with kids for a restaurant, some part of the casino is not far away.

It is the parents' responsibility to make sure that the kids act properly in public. It doesn't happen by itself. You need to introduce them to public activities early and make sure they know what's expected and behave properly. It's not going to happen suddenly when you're on vacation.

When my son was about 16-17, we took a friend along so he would have a companion on vacation. He had rarely been taken to restaurants and other public activities by his family, and his manners were atrocious, just out lack of training. My son was as embarrassed as we were by some of the things he did, and we all took him under our wings immediately. By the end of the 2 week trip he knew what was expected and was doing everythin right. My only point is that at his age he should have been there along time before that.

Originally Posted by wvbias

Quite honestly I believe that this country will
collapse within the next 20 or so years. Or
turn into a Soviet style dictatorship.

Thoughts Comrads?


Terry

80,000,000+ guns says it wont. Ok lets say the gun grabbing liberals take half, $40,000,000 The 2nd amendment was made to keep the government in check, and as much as I dont respect most people, I truely believe that in this case they will grow some balls and fight for what they believe in. Even if the guns stay in the gun safes, make no mistake the government knows that they are there and many of us are much more well trained with our weapons than most of the military and national guard.

All of your kid stories reminded me of an issue I ran into earlier this year.

My wife and I were at a restuarant, and while this place was not really kid friendly it didnt stop all the moms from bringing their screaming brats. As we were leaving we got stuck in a hallway leading to an exit because a woman was letting her little rug rat crawl around on the floor to burn off some steam, there were toys and a child in the hallway in front of a main door with no one doing anything about it. I walk up and stand very close, but wait patiently letting her know by my body language that I plan on leaving very soon. Suddenly she turns around and says to me "don't you see I have my kid, here give me a minute to get him out of the way for christs sake" I politely said "ma'am perhaps you shouldnt have you child in front of a main exit to begin with, not only is it dangerous for him and us, but its a fire hazard." Well with that she errupted into all sorts of wonderful choice words that Im sure her kid will be speaking relatively soon. I got the impression that because she was a girl and I was a guy she figured she could get away with it. WELL, then my wife came up after getting her coat who is about 6'3" with the boots she had on at the time, and let me tell you, she shut that woman up REAL quick and we were able to leave quite quickly. As thrilled as I was about seeing my wife in action, I still secretely hoped that the woman would get her nipples caught in a meat grinder for the rest of the evening

Originally Posted by JLStorm

My wife and I were at a restaurant, and while this place was not really kid friendly it didn't stop all the moms from bringing their screaming brats. As we were leaving we got stuck in a hallway leading to an exit because a woman was letting her little rug rat crawl around on the floor to burn off some steam, there were toys and a child in the hallway in front of a main door with no one doing anything about it.

Good for you and your wife for speaking up. Society needs more people to do that.

The situation you described would never have happened when I was a kid. First, the women wouldn't have brought their kids along... kids were left at home with a baby sitter, a neighbor, or taken to a relative so their parents could go out. Second, the restaurant would have already told the women to keep they're kids quiet and under control or leave. As you noted, given the mother's actions as a role model I'm sure we can expect even more outrageous behavior from her child when he grows up.

Kids don't show respect for adults (or each other, for that matter) because the adults that surround them (including their parents) don't show respect for other adults. This is all exacerbated by the media which seems to delight in sensationalizing things that are an affront to the norms of society. Listen to the words of most rap songs and you'll find they are denigrating to women, or the government, or something. It would be one thing if they were a protest of some sort, but mostly they just seem to be mean spirited for the shock value. That gives kids the wrong message, IMHO. Watch almost any tv show that's popular with kids and you'll see it revolves around sensationalizing outrageous behavior of some type.

My wife currently teaches kids from kindergarten through 8th grade in a middle class neighborhood. Previously, she taught 6th grade in an underprivileged neighborhood for many years. While the kids in the underprivileged area had more radical excursions of behavior (eg, kids as young as 4th graders bringing guns and knives to school) they generally had respect for authority... they just felt the need to be able to defend themselves when taken advantage of. Conversely, the middle class kids are almost universally verbally abusive and disrespectful... and their parents stick up for them. In many cases the parents are worse than the kids. For example, a few weeks ago my wife had to send a note home with a 7th grader telling her parents that their buxom young daughter was in violation of the school dress code and was not allowed to wear a blouse with a plunging neckline that ended somewhere about the navel. (All the little boys with raging hormones loved it, lol.) The mother called and ripped my wife a new ... telling her it was "important to her daughter that she be popular" and that "she fully supported her daughter's choice of dress"... that "the school had no right to tell her what she could/couldn't wear"... and "how dare she have a problem with her daughter's 'sexuality' ". No one at the school is sure what the daughter's sexuality has to do with it, but that's what the mother said.) So, how do we expect this young lady to act when she's an adult? So far the parents seem to be teaching her that she can rebel against the rules and authority to get what she wants... regardless of what's best for the society surrounding her.

So, Josh, 10 years from now when you run into this young lady in the restaurant you better make sure your wife's 'packin' cause it's probably going to need more than a verbal exchange to get out the door... even if your wife's on stilts

Originally Posted by azjoe

So, Josh, 10 years from now when you run into this young lady in the restaurant you better make sure your wife's 'packin' cause it's probably going to need more than a verbal exchange to get out the door... even if your wife's on stilts

As it turns out through a strange twist of events and a new job opportunity she will be carrying this from now on:




While I carry this (not usually with the laser sight, thats just a fun toy for a rainy day):



and This as a backup:




So I think we are ok....but honestly I would rather have a cattle prod and watch people like her squirm

The only thing that I can say is....
Too hell with these damn people.


Terry

Originally Posted by wvbias

The only thing that I can say is....
Too hell with these damn people.


Terry

Hopefully....but they sure arent going there quickly enough!

Originally Posted by JLStorm

80,000,000+ guns says it wont. Ok lets say the gun grabbing liberals take half, $40,000,000 The 2nd amendment was made to keep the government in check, and as much as I dont respect most people, I truely believe that in this case they will grow some balls and fight for what they believe in. Even if the guns stay in the gun safes, make no mistake the government knows that they are there and many of us are much more well trained with our weapons than most of the military and national guard.

You're assuming they won't be too brainwashed to act. And even if they keep their fighting spirit, there is a cohesion issue. How will they get organized? Then there's the gradual media indoctrination and sneaking in laws...
"Right to work" is a perfect example. Such bills tout allowing workers to quit any time and without notice. However if they quit without notice, they shouldn't expect a letter of reference, so they give their 2-3 weeks anyways if they're smart. What the bills really allow is for employers to fire you without a proper cause.
As for media and propaganda... I'll use a very real example that most of you don't even think about... In popular TV shows and movies, shown in prime time, they'll gladly show a person's head being blown off but they'll never actually show a full view of two people having sex. I find this wrong for 2 reasons:
1) I'd rather have sex than have my head blown off
2) Sex is perfectly natural and essential to the human race. Violence should be strongly discouraged in the civilized society.
Hoever, our society finds sex to be too dirty to be shown on prime time tv but violence is perfectly fine. Talk about a major brain-washing.
Our kids are picking up on that, embracing violence, embracing "i only care about myself and to he** with the rest of the world" characters and "artists" and thinking of sex as something dirty, forbidden and perverted. No wonder we have so many sexual predators these days.